It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Leora Halpern Lanz, Associate Professor of the Practice, Boston University, School of Hospitality Administration

• David Kong

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Leora reveals opportunities to attract and retain the next generation, and she debunks myths about them. Leora also shares tips for developing one’s network into friendships and why doing great work is only Part A of what’s needed to succeed.  Plus, she discusses ageism in our industry and why young people should say Yes to opportunities.

Lan Elliott:

Hello and welcome to its Personal Stories. My name is Lan Elliot on behalf of its personal stories, and today I'm pleased to welcome Leora Lands to our show. She's the associate professor at Boston University's School of Hospitality Administration. Welcome,

Leora Halpern Lanz:

Leora. Lan, it's always so much fun to talk with you. I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

Lan Elliott:

I'm so happy to have you on. We always have so much to talk about when we get together, so we'll see if we can cram it all into the time we have planned today. So let's jump right to it.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

Sounds good.

Lan Elliott:

I know a little bit about your journey, but would you share with our audience some of the inflection points in your very successful career, and if there are any factors that contributed to your success? Yes.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

I am thinking back and I'm gonna go back to college, so I just had my 40th reunion, so you can figure out the math. I realize what, how I'm going to answer this question really talks about the job transitions, but they were inflection points when I think back to the decisions that were made to make various steps in my career undergraduate, I actually wanted to study to be a broadcast journalist. But it was one course that. Flipped me on a direction toward hospitality. And when I look back at that, I remember that passion and feeling of, oh, I really am liking what I'm hearing. I'm enjoying this industry. And today I call it a light. I'm going like this. A light bulb moment. There's a light bulb going on off, off my head. And being in a classroom today, I, when I see students that have light bulb moments, when they get it, it's just the best feeling. And I had that. So I look back to that college class. And that one particular professor who comes back 40 years later, frankly, so I'll talk about him again. And then I went to graduate school. After college, I went directly to grad school and I worked hard and it was one particular class project. It was a group project actually that led to the first job that led to my first full-time job. And so I looked back at that and I thought, okay, it was because of hard work and good work. That the job offer came, the bosses at another internship that I had in grad school. Ended up going to Sheridan Corporation. I actually had an internship with the Four Seasons Hotel Boston, the one on the Boston Comet. It had just opened in Boston, so this is the late eighties, and those directors that I reported to went moved over to Sheraton, ITT, Sheraton at the time. I know you and I both have that alma mater in common and. Again, it was good work. When I look back, they saw my work ethic and my productivity and my results, and they brought me over to Sheridan. So these transitions were made. Because of proving myself, I look back, I didn't think of it at the time that way, but I look back and I look at these as sort of inflection points. A dear mutual friend of ours, Dave Mansbach, had interviewed me for HVS and actually. It was connections and relationships that led to my role at HVS after almost a decade with Sheraton Hotel. He's still a dear friend of both of ours today. So relationships are also a key part of these inflection points and these job transitions. And I would say another reflection I have is saying yes to opportunities that I never even talked about. Being in a classroom is what I still refer to, and it's 10 years already a happy accident. I said yes to an opportunity that I never dreamed of. It wasn't on my radar. And I have to thank Donna Quadri, who's at Penn State for actually encouraged me loudly and strongly to really consider this first at NYU and then coming over here to be you. Afterwards. So I'm looking back, these inflection points I think were really as a result of doing great work relationships with people. And friendships, relationships is not transactional. This is true and genuine and saying yes to opportunities. So that's how I would answer sort of those inflections in the career trajectory.

Lan Elliott:

I love that. And of course Donna and Dave who have both been on our show and wonderful advisors as well. And yes, I can imagine if Donna is on you to do something that you wanna really think. The arm

Leora Halpern Lanz:

was twisted. The arm was

Lan Elliott:

twisted. That's amazing. Let's talk a little bit about continuous growth. Because I have a feeling your students think they're done with their learning when they graduate from school. But in fact, we find that continuous learning is a big part of people's journeys and often a key component of success. And I'm wondering if there is a skill or something you learned that, you know what? I didn't learn that skill as well as I thought I should have in the past and I'm going to need it in the future. Is there something that you saw that way?

Leora Halpern Lanz:

I wanna ans I wanna address the first part of your question about students and continuous learning. I teach seniors and grad students. So I'm one of their last touchpoint before the real world, and I think today's students are craving continuous learning and professional development and mentorship. I don't just think it, I know it. Even if we talk to our career services, my colleagues in the career services team here at the School of Hospitality, I teach students. This is where I think companies have an opportunity to improve. And meet or entering workforce halfway. I know they're craving mentors. They're craving a career trajectory and a plan and a path for growth. They want to travel. If they got into this business just like we did, we love people, hospitality, travel, tourism, so do they. And if there's a chance to follow and shadow someone to go to a conference, if you can take advantage of that opportunity. That's actually going to retain them longer, that's gonna keep them wanting to work with you. That's showing that you're investing in them. There is a mistrust of companies and if you're showing a genuine investment in the students or in these young workers they're gonna stay loyal. So I wanted to address, my observation. There's definitely an understanding and a desire for continued growth beyond college. For myself personally, I think if there's something that I wish I had learned years ago, it's probably patience and listening better. I'm a type a New Yorker. I'm a very emotive person. I am. I'm very reactionary. And I think over time, just by maturing and working and my own career progression I don't think I'm perfect by any means. I've gotten better, but I think to be able to be guided, to be a good listener. And to be patient and not so emotional or reactionary, which I have always been, is something that I could have benefited from that I do try to instill in my students as we go through our courses. I teach marketing courses, but I actually am also teaching professionalism. Professionalism and work readiness just as much.

Lan Elliott:

I love that. And I don't think sometimes it's as focused on, I think schools are very. Focused on imparting knowledge, but this piece of the patience and listening and looking for mentors.'cause you don't know what you don't know,

Leora Halpern Lanz:

right?

Lan Elliott:

Those were skills I could have learned earlier, much earlier to, but it's a good thing that we get better with time and self-reflection. Also such a great part of what you just mentioned there, to be able to know that was something that you needed. And it's hard for people to give you advice. They won't just give you advice. You have to be ready to hear it. And I think that's

Leora Halpern Lanz:

true too.

Lan Elliott:

That's a big part of it.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

That's very true. My title here is associate professor of quote of the practice, which means I do come from industry. And so I have the benefit of being able to teach my lessons, learned my hard lessons, learned, my mistakes, my errors, my successes from the industry to the students as well. But you're right, people have to be willing to hear it on the other side also. Not easy for folks. Sometimes it takes time afterwards, you can look back as that 2020 quarterback and realize, now I understood what that meant. I also, it is hard to teach everything in the classroom. Sometimes. You just gotta fly outta that nest and soar, and if you hit trees along the way or bumps, that's the way to learn, our stronger lessons are learned when we do make mistakes or when do, when things do take a left, a curve ball. We can't teach everything in the classroom. I know. I certainly try to teach the emotional part of it and the professional and maturity part of it. Not just the skillset, but sometimes we just have to learn by doing.

Lan Elliott:

That's so true. I wanna stay on that topic of learning by doing because Okay. Sometimes when we do things, they don't turn out the way we hoped, but I find you can actually learn so much more from setbacks or disappointments than you would from everything going perfectly the way you'd like it to. Have you experienced a setback that taught you a valuable lesson? And if so, could you share that story?

Leora Halpern Lanz:

Yes, we've all had it. And anyone who says they haven't, I don't know who they are because how can you know it's life. We're human. Things are gonna go wrong, and that's the way we get better. We recover. And we all know just working in operations and hospitality, people remember the recovery actually. And that turns into the positive, for setbacks. About 11 years ago, I was in a transition period. I, I had a very long-term stint with HVS as a global director of marketing. I was there for 15 years and it was phenomenal. My global network thanks to HVS is I'm, I so treasure it, it's so important to me, but it was time to go. 15 years, it was time to go for various reasons. And that transition of what do I do next was a setback to a point where the stress caused me physical angst. It ended up candidly, in an ER visit, it was just, I am someone who unfortunately, stress can manifest itself physically. And I learned a lot about myself. To things will work out. Things always work out. They really do. Your situation will just work out and I vowed I will never let myself get into a physical state like that again. And I need to balance myself. I need to meditate, to take time for myself. I need to have faith that due to good work and relationships. We will land. Okay. And saying yes to opportunities, quite honestly.'cause here I am teaching, which was not on my radar, and it was supposed to be a one semester stint, and it's now 11 years later. So taking risks is hard, but so worth it. And those are some of the setbacks that I can talk to. I guess one other one. There's been situations where I've been take put into roles and then taken out of roles, and I've learned it took a while to learn that I shouldn't take those personally. They were done for the benefit of the team, they were done for the benefit of the organization, and I actually felt liberated not being in a certain role. And so I actually do teach that to my students and I'll share the example then. Everything is group work, teamwork in college and in one of my courses, my experiential marketing course, which is a course that I adore, and we are working on real hospitality projects, real businesses in Boston, in real time. It's an amazing experience for the students. It's a win-win for the businesses who. So willing to open up to us about some of their challenges. And I always tell the teams, I want every team to have a designated communicator, liaison for the team and a designated captain who's gonna steer the ship forward. And then mid-semester I tell the students, okay, do we need to make a change in the roles? Maybe it's too much for one person. Maybe the two people should actually flip those positions'cause they're actually better at it. Maybe there's other things going on in someone's world where they need to take a step back from the role they've been designated with and somebody else should step in at this point. And I told the students, it's not a failure. It's a self-realization, it's an awareness for the benefit and for the success of the group. And that's my way of teaching that lesson in those classes and I think that's really important. So I have had setbacks, but that's what's enabled me to get better and to teach it.

Lan Elliott:

I love so many things that you mentioned in there, the what you're teaching your students that making a change isn't necessarily that it. A reflection on you as a person. It just may be that there's a better fit in this moment of time and that also that change is okay. You don't. Get to where you are, including starting your own company, which you've also done without taking some risks, stepping off that deep end. How do you prepare yourself to take a chance on something?

Leora Halpern Lanz:

You've gotta be determined and you've, willing to take advice along the way from friends willing to get support it. I believe in a village, it takes a village. I'm a very collaborative person. I am someone who needs the social input and advice from others. I think it's healthy. If I was working myopically, how could I have clients anyway? I just think it helps and it's beneficial. So I think talking it through, not keeping things, too many things too close to the heart because. How else will we learn and grow and get great ideas to make us even better? So I do think communication and sharing these ideas is important. LAN, I've got I wrote two books that are coming out soon. That, to me, was one of the most vulnerable. Scary risk-taking. They're so exposing to put yourself into a book that people can read about. And I have to say, very recently, sharing pre-reads of the books with industry colleagues and friends who I respect, who I love, who I admire, but who I'm terrified of their feedback. It was terrifying. And I had to take that risk. I had to make that effort to get better. Because I got honest, candid, constructive input that made it better. And so we have to be willing to take risks. I do believe in no risk, no reward. I really do. And I preach that with my students too. And sometimes they don't work, but then we learn something from it. There's a silver lining that makes us better with the next project. But, going out on my own was definitely a risk. It was not something I had wanted to do at the time. I didn't think of myself as entrepreneurial back then. I really always considered myself a hospitality service person. Tell me what to do and I'll do it even better than you can have imagined. I always operated that way, but here, back then I felt as if also it was 20 14, 20 15. It, back then it didn't look good to be, quote, not working. And today not working is actually healthy. Taking a little break and then reassessing and finding your next chapter is not an unusual thing to do. It's actually usually pretty appreciated by other people. So it was different times. I had to take that risk. I was determined, but again, I did have to let in my village to be able to help support me and champion me and guide me. So collaboration.

Lan Elliott:

I love that of using your network and your support system to help you through, and even if you're on your own, still reaching out and still having people who can mentor you from around your community and support you and offer you advice. So really wonder.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

I'd like to think that network is actually friendships, that's what happens over time, particularly in our industry because we do cross paths with each other. I'm going like this'cause we really do cross paths with each other. Over time, numerous times throughout our careers, people, whether people bounce companies, projects that seem to come up. There are folks that I've worked with 40 years ago and they're showing up in my world, even today. It's friendships. We know we can count on each other for good work. We're reliable, we're dependable for each other. And that's what makes the relationship so strong. So it is a network, there's no question, but I'd like to consider those friendships.

Lan Elliott:

I do think one of the great things about our industry is, unlike other industries, we tend to stay within hospitality. People, once they find it, they go, this is my place. And. I think that's wonderful because those relationships that you have can stay and evolve over time. And like you say, people come back again in your career and you never know when you're gonna run into someone that you worked with in the past or that you knew from before, or that, in my case, negotiated with across the table who then becomes important to you later. And I think having that network is so important. But I think for a lot of people, networking is this very scary idea and it's not the friendships that you and I have talked about. And I'm curious how you build your network in a way that's natural for you.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

I, I heard, dave even shared this when you had a conversation with Dave Mansbach. There are times when I'll read a news article and I immediately just think of someone who's either connected to it or involved with it, or maybe we worked on a project together that was similar. I just find that I'm always between texting or sending a quick message to someone, or even if it's something as simple as a happy birthday, but I knew of something that was important to them or special to them. I'm just always reaching out and I do find that it's been reciprocated. So I, it's an effort. It's an effort. I do have to say it that, not that it's painful, it's not, this is actually a joyful thing to do. But it takes work to maintain those relationships. It is something where you have to be proactive and take those steps, and I'm someone who I'd like to think I, I do that. I stay in touch with folks who are meaningful, who, who support. We support one another. We care about each other. And there's what I call Friends of the Road and Friends of the Heart, and a lot of these friends of the road are as important as Friends of the heart. But I guess my answer would be you have to stay proactive to maintain that network.

Lan Elliott:

I love that. I love the idea of reading an article that someone's related to and just dropping them a note. And not because you need anything, just because you saw that they were involved in something, they opened their hotel or had worked on the sale of a hotel and you just wanna congratulate them.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

Absolutely.

Lan Elliott:

Can be really nice over time to continue that and just keep you top of mind as well.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

That's exactly right. To stay relevant, to stay top of mind. But more importantly, because it actually genuinely made me smile and I wanted to share it.

Lan Elliott:

Yes, absolutely. One of the things we've talked about is that you mentor many students who are ready to graduate and enter the world, and they'll be the next generation of our industry's leaders. And there are a lot of leadership books out there, a lot of leadership advice. I'm curious if there is a common. Bit of leadership advice that you think is a myth or it's something that we need to let go of?

Leora Halpern Lanz:

I think, I know it's a myth that this generation, this rising workforce doesn't have a work ethic. That's not true. They absolutely have a work ethic. We have an obligation to guide them on the professionalism that they didn't get experience with yet. They're looking for it. I see it in my classes. They're craving it. They appreciate it. They just haven't gotten it anywhere else. So when I hear stories of other industries and so came in late, and then they left early and they didn't dress, you hear things. I'm not convinced that's necessarily our industry, but. I think that means something. Back up a little bit. Where was the tone from the start? I, it's a myth. I see students, like I said, I teach this year I'm teaching freshmen and sophomores too, Lynn, and it's a joy for me. Typically I'm teaching seniors and grad students, so they're just this close from, getting that full-time job. They wanna work, they want. Guidance. They want structure. We all need structure. Who doesn't need structure? That's how we, we do well with just some sort of a foundation. So I wanna put that myth to bed, at least the students in this school. There's a work ethic.

Lan Elliott:

Any specific advice if someone is hiring someone straight out of school?

Leora Halpern Lanz:

I think for the companies that are doing, so there are some companies that are doing it better than others, but onboarding and as I said earlier, they are craving continued professional development and learning and mentorship. And so I think having an in a built in infrastructure that accommodates that before these young workers are hired. Is gonna set the company up for success and for long-term retention of that student or of that employee. I don't think people wanna bounce from company to company. I do think there's still a mistrust of some companies and I think companies, some companies are getting it right and doing it better. But I do think conversations and the other thing I would say. It's very important for people, for companies or leaders to value their associates and not use their associates. Leadership tends to put folks in specific roles'cause they know they'll do well in them. That's great. That's what leaders are supposed to do. Optimize sort of the strengths of those individuals for the success of the team. But they should be valued and not used. And that's another suggestion I would have for companies in how young workers are treated and how any worker is treated in a company.

Lan Elliott:

That's very true. I've definitely experienced the difference between working for a manager versus working for a leader, and the investment that they put into you and the opportunities that they give you to grow. And learn more, I think just depends on the experience that you have with who you work with. But I do think for some of the managers that I worked for that also taught me things about how I wanted to act and treat my people when I was in that role myself. Yeah. Switching this. Flipping the discussion over to the student side, what do you believe is required for a young person to distinguish themselves and advance their careers quickly?

Leora Halpern Lanz:

I tell our students, if you do great work and you make yourself known and present, it's like it's marketing, right? It's marketing oneself. I actually just taught this yesterday in the class. We were talking about websites for a particular project that we're working on, and I said, it's great if the client makes the updates on the website, but if you don't get people to the website, no one's gonna know about it. And so that's where we were talking about paid search and, organic and landing pages and all that good stuff. But I always say there's a part A and a part B. You've gotta update that website first, but then you gotta get people to it or else they know nothing about it. So we've gotta do the great work. That's part A. But we do have to market ourselves. It's very important to do that and when it's appropriate to have a voice at the table and to share your opinions and your thoughts to contribute and to not be afraid to do that. But do the great work. Kindness is key. Be kind. That's hospitality. Just be kind and. Don't presume, don't make presumptions, don't jump to conclusions. There's always different perspectives and we have to do that in marketing. We have to assess the situation. We've gotta look at all the perspectives, all the stakeholders. So if we're in a situation, give it a minute. Don't jump to conclusions. Just be kind, don't make presumptions. I also teach the students in the classroom. If we think we're ready to submit that paper, we're ready to update that PowerPoint, take a step back. What's one more thing we can do to go above and beyond to distinguish it and to make it a little bit better? I don't want us to be satisfied with mediocrity. I don't want us to be satisfied with I got it done. I want us to take a little step. To make it better, to make it something that we're proud of, to put your name on. And so I always tell the students, start the work early, put it away for a day or two. What's one more thing we can do to just make it a drop better and do that with everything we do in life to distinguish ourselves. I guess those are some of the points that I would share. Lan.

Lan Elliott:

I love those. Those are all really great ones, and there is great value in starting early and setting things aside because when you come back to it a day later or later in the day, you always find something else that you go,

Leora Halpern Lanz:

oh, you know

Lan Elliott:

what? I'd love to do this as well. So

Leora Halpern Lanz:

absolutely.

Lan Elliott:

Now Leora, I'm gonna switch to you. Oh, I'd rather talk

Leora Halpern Lanz:

about my students'cause I love them so much. Oh.

Lan Elliott:

What would you say to your 22-year-old self, what advice would you give or something that you would've wanted to know when you were 22?

Leora Halpern Lanz:

I was someone who was open to opportunities. I was someone who didn't necessarily have a plan. I was open to opportunities to take me into interesting directions, which is something I actually share with the students.'cause some are so planned and i's oh gosh, some door might open that you've gotta go through. But. I think over time again, I've just matured in being that collaborative good team player. Back then, I didn't take a leadership course when I was in college. I don't, it wasn't required. I didn't take it. I mentioned earlier, patience, not reacting. I would've loved to have known that back then. Working with teams, I'm someone who feels that not everybody has to be a leader. We all have to be good team players, and it's really important to learn how to collaborate with each other just as much as it's important to learn how to lead. And I think collaboration, the way I have team structured in courses with roles so people know what has to get done and then how to support each other in those specific roles. When I was in college, we didn't have formalized ways of working in groups or teams, and I think I would've appreciated that back then because I really do believe in the power of collaboration and that probably would've helped me sooner. I was someone who, when I did quote group projects or even team projects at work, somehow I always seemed to carry a heavier load, and I think it would've been helpful. To have a more balanced situation. I also think back then, reminding myself to balance personal interests with professional interests a bit more. But I think I worked as much as I did because I actually loved what I was doing and it was so much fun. So I never really thought of it as work. Work is sometimes it's a bad four letter word, but I've been blessed that I've always enjoyed it.

Lan Elliott:

I love that and I love that our industry provides those opportunities. There's so many fun jobs that you can have within hospitality that are all still within hospitality. And I do find it's such a fun industry that I don't think you could ever run out of things that you might wanna do. And I think your students that are so directed and have such a specific plan. I think they will find that life unfolds the way it's supposed to. And you might have a grand plan. I know I did and I graduated right into a recession.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

Ah. So

Lan Elliott:

I think that's great advice also to be open. So thank you for that.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

Yes, sure.

Lan Elliott:

Leora, as I suspected, we are coming to the end of our time. You have offered such great advice. Your students are so lucky to have you. Not just teaching them about market marketing, but also about life and the work world as well. What's one final piece of advice that you might offer our audience to empower their personal success, which is our motto.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

I'm gonna interject if it's okay with a piece of advice to folks who have already been in the business for some time. And then I'm gonna come back to the younger entrant into the world of hospitality. And the reason I wanna do that is because in the last year or two, I have a lot of friends, we're all of a certain age bracket, and there are a lot of folks, I'm an anti ageist lamb. I don't like the word old. And my students know, don't use the word old. Don't use the word elderly in my class. That's gonna get you an F I'm telling you right now, don't use it. Don't say it. I would rather hear that we're seasoned and that we're experienced and that we're savvy. But there's a lot of friends that I have who are looking for work. And there's an ageism issue going on right now where seasoned people who still have so much knowledge to contribute women and men. And so for those friends, collaborate and join forces and create something really special. And I really feel compelled to share that piece of advice now because I do have friends in this situation and. We shouldn't go anywhere. The industry needs our knowledge and our input. We have to learn. So don't go anywhere. Just stay connected and collab, come together and create a force that's gonna be even more powerful for younger folks, for new entrants. I had so much fun last year. I took a group of students to New York City during spring break to just immerse in hospitality and every one of those businesses, from hotels, to attractions, to restaurants, to tourism offices, whatever the companies were, all of them said, at every business, to all these students, say yes to opportunities. Say yes to things that you didn't even think about. Say yes. To, just a role. Make it work for your schedule. Just make it work. Just say, yes. That's how we learn. So for young folks, say yes. To things that just didn't even cross your radar just like I did.'Cause you land happy and you learn a lot from it. I think it's when you are a little deeper into your career and you have the opportunity to say no because you wanna stay focused and give more time for yourself, then it's healthy to stay. No, but I think at the start for young folks say yes. I will also say that networking and those relationship buildings, turn them into friendships. Please. Make them genuine, make them authentic. Value them. Don't use them. Value them. And if there's one last piece of advice, I am someone who journals. I am someone who writes. And I'm always encouraging my students in a classroom. Yes, this is gonna sound archaic. To take notes with pen and paper'cause you will actually remember it better. The evidence is there for that. So as you, as we all go through experiences that work, that don't work, that succeed, that fail, that we learn from that document them, journal them, because you'll appreciate your own book of. Stories to be able to tell down the road and that you can refer to down the road. I do journal these, I do, and I found it cathartic and helpful. So that would be my final piece of advice.

Lan Elliott:

I love that. Thank you so much, Leora. I am not someone who is a journaler. It's like pulling teeth to sit down and. Do the navel gazing, but I think that time of self-reflection can be so important, and that's probably something I should have done. Far earlier in my career. So thank you for that final

Leora Halpern Lanz:

piece of it. Thanks, LAN. Thanks.

Lan Elliott:

I always have a great time talking with you. You're one of those people that I never feel I have enough time with, so I

Leora Halpern Lanz:

feel the same way. I feel the same way. Thank you. And we have a lot of shared history in common too, so there's always more that we could talk about, but this was a lot of fun and I hope the folks who listen to this find this useful and helpful.

Lan Elliott:

There's so much great advice in here. I am very grateful for you for sharing that with our audience and for our audience. If you have enjoyed this conversation with Leora, I hope you'll go to our website, it's personal stories.com, where you can find more interviews with hospitality industry leaders. Thank you. Thank you, Leora.

Leora Halpern Lanz:

Thanks, LAN.