It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Rod Clough_ President_ HVS interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

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Rod shares his journey from working in high school catering services to becoming President of HVS. He reflects on his growth as a public speaker and his preparation, his approach to leadership, and why he prioritizes and models wellness and self-care. As an openly gay, Latino senior executive, Rob highlights the critical role that workplace culture, inclusion, and representation play in shaping his leadership. 

Rachel Humphrey:

I am Rachel Humphrey with its Personal Stories at Hospitality Podcast. We are a nonprofit out of Arizona in the hospitality industry dedicated to empowering personal success, and I'm really excited to be joined today by Rod Cluff, the president of HBS. Rod, welcome to the program.

Rod Clough:

Thank you very much. Happy to be here.

Rachel Humphrey:

Rod, we're gonna jump right in. Spend a little bit of time today talking about your specific journey to leadership and then also some of the insights you've learned along the way. One of the things that everybody knows I love about the hospitality industry is how incredibly unique two journeys can be, and yet people still end up in roles of leadership within the hospitality industry. I think it's one of the most special aspects of the industry. So tell us a little bit about you, your background, your journey to leadership, and how you got to where you are today.

Rod Clough:

Sure. I grew up in a college town in Boulder, Colorado just down the road from where I'm living now. And, my first foray into leadership was way back in high school. I had a job at CU Catering. My dad at the time was doing a lot of business with catering and gotten to know the catering director there. He was associate Dean at one of the colleges and, and so I got an afterschool job there and just fell in love with it and stuck around because I loved it so much. And then a supervisory role opened up and I jumped into it. It was great fun to lead events and be in charge, make sure the customers were happy, make sure the staff was doing, figuring out how to. Make sure the staff did their jobs, but quite often the staff or almost always, the staff was older than me. They were college students for the most part. And then just pull, pulling everything off without a hitch from beginning to end. It was a lot of fun. And so I realized that I had a passion for it for working with people and leading people, but at the same time. Enjoying the work and making rooms come to life and everybody, enjoying their moment in whatever event we were doing. Looking back on my life, I feel like that job, strangely enough, like really had a lot of it, it ended up having a lot of kind of core importance. For who? Who it, I should say. It. It, it provided a really good foundation for my, starting my, starting in the hospitality industry.

Rachel Humphrey:

I love hearing that there's something that really, your first experience led to a lifelong career in an industry. Tell us how that role at CU then led to what you're doing with HVS.

Rod Clough:

So my leader in that role now, I had grown up my father was a chemical engineer. And still is. He loves his work. Even to this day, he's writing textbooks and rewriting textbooks with his best friend. A brilliant man and I remember being in high school my junior year, I was in AP physics and I was really struggling and I have a vague memory of going down to the dining room table, which is where my dad always worked with a problem that I couldn't figure out. And I was a straight A student and it was really hard that a, was really hard to get and. I, he said it in a loving way, I think. But there was a look, I think on his face of you're struggling with this and you wanna be an engineer. So that was a moment. And then back to my catering story the manager of catering division. At the time her name was Tara. She had gone to the Cornell Hotel School and was a grad, and she took me to the side and saw how much I was enjoying the work, and she just planted the seed. She's you should go to college for this. You can make a career out of this. And growing up in a world of engineers and really a world of stem, which is all I knew and my friends knew, and they were all applying for these positions. Or these these college tracks. I thought, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And I, so I took that idea and I ran with it. I applied to Cornell got into the hotel school and never looked back. But if I hadn't had that catering job and met Tara. And if Tara hadn't taken me to the side and seen something in me to plant the seed and even tell me that this even existed, because back then in 19, oh my gosh, when was that? 1988. There was no internet. And yeah, there were co, there were counselor offices in high schools that you could go to, but they wouldn't have known of the Cornell Hotel School in Boulder, Colorado. So it was. It was one of those moments where, wow, okay this is meant to be.

Rachel Humphrey:

I am a big believer in sliding doors, and so I think that those moments that change the direction that your life takes so many important themes in there. Not just about having someone who sees something in you and makes a recommendation to you, but then taking that risk or your dad giving you the side eye that you interpreted to be that maybe that wasn't your path. One of the interesting things to me about your journey is you've been with HBS for almost 30 years, or just over 30 years now. We do see in hospitality, certainly a lot of longevity, maybe different from some other industries. I'm curious how you think your leadership has changed over time, and when you're at the same company for that length of time, how do you stay fresh? How do you make sure that you don't get complacent? In that same with that same company.

Rod Clough:

Sure. So I, I think my leadership certainly has changed over time. I think in the beginning was very rigid and to the point where I would write out procedures and come up with checklists and just be look at everything in such minute detail. And real realizing that back in the beginning when I was learning the craft myself and hiring people that also didn't know the craft, I had to do that just as a function of the work and the function of building a team along with wrapping it in a really good culture so that then those folks wouldn't leave me. And. So over time, as I've built my team and my leaders have stayed, I've been able to release that need to oversee that level of minutiae and manage that and move on to looking at different things and looking. Looking at bigger picture things or looking at things that bring me more satisfaction over time because the minutia can become very draining. So that's been nice to be able to have a team that sticks with you and then they then. Take on the training and the, and that level of leadership in their own light. And I know they don't, they're not training their people the way I train them. They're putting their own spin on things and that's great. One of the other things I believe in is really hands off leadership. Like once, once you find somebody. Who can be, who is really exceptional, just let them be exceptional. And there's no need to be checking in on them all the time and to see exactly what they're doing and how they're doing it. So that's been, another way. That I've evolved. There was another part to your question I think that I didn't quite, is how

Rachel Humphrey:

do you stay fresh with being with the same company?'cause for a lot of people, the familiar becomes very easy. And this role is anything but easy. So how do you stay fresh?

Rod Clough:

So one of the complaints that I've received from some employees over the years is that we're always changing and they. It's come through on like my annual surveys that I, employee surveys that I do that they're, some folks just don't like that. They would write in the survey specifically. They're like, rod needs to stop changing our processes. He needs to stop coming out with change and new ideas. We just need a moment to breathe. And that's just how I'm wired. So I am always looking for new ideas for the next best thing for. Brilliance that's out there in the world. I love borrowing that and seeing how it can fit at HVS and putting our own little spin on it and then launching it. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't work. And then after a few years, we quietly let it retire and then we come up with something else that's new. And so we've ultimately over time found a team of people that kind of thrive in that. Culture of what's next and whatever's next. It's prob probably gonna be great, but I'm. Where I learn my content is from all sorts of different places. I will be out at hotels and I see a hotel being run extraordinarily well, and I'll ask a GM what they're about, what they're doing. I'll have, I have great, a great set of friends that are in all sorts of different industries and they bring ideas to the table. I'm a recent, I've recently fell in love with podcasts and, and also listening to books and I'm more of a listener, not a reader, but listening to people's life stories and a lot of autobiographies and business books too and wellness books, all sorts of different types of books. These authors have great ideas and so those tend to trickle their way into HVS. We have. All sorts of different fun challenges that we do, or gatherings that we do. And we create this world where the ultimate goal is to create a world where people don't wanna leave. And it does take you back to that our parents' generation, I think where people would start their careers in the fifties and sixties and early seventies, and. And you would do so with this intention of this is where my career is gonna be. I'm not gonna quit in two years. And so that's how I, and my dad being a tenured professor, that's how I was brought up. He never ever left his job. And so that was my world. And very different from the world today where folks wanna stay for a couple years and then move on. So we have to learn to celebrate that and embrace that reality. But also let folks know, I'm getting off on a tangent here, but get, let folks know that this is a great place to stay. And we'll make it fun and and the ideas can come from anywhere.

Rachel Humphrey:

Rod, I didn't know we had that in common. My father was also a tenured professor for 55 years at the same college in New England, and I didn't know it any other way when I left school as well. I always love to share with our audience why someone was a particular interest to me to invite.'cause as you just said, how you like to learn through podcasts. I like to share people's life journeys and insights. Through the podcast and you had reached out to me and said, Hey, I can see that you are advocating for greater representation of women in the industry and it is something that we share in common. I wanted to read the quotes specifically because I was very impressed by it, and I reached out to you about it. Your bio says. As an openly gay Latino senior executive, rod strongly believes in fostering a welcome, welcoming workplace for all. And I was really taken by that because not only the focus on culture, which is so important in our leadership nowadays, but also in representation. And I was wondering if you could share a little bit about that importance for you and is that also part of your evolving leadership journey or has that been with you from the beginning?

Rod Clough:

Yeah. It's been with me a from the beginning. I did grow up very much in a white world. Boulder, Colorado is not a diverse place. But it was a loving city and a welcoming city. It wasn't really until I got to Cornell, where in Ethan, Cornell in itself is not highly diverse, but it was certainly more diverse than Boulder. And I was exposed to all sorts of newness that I had never seen before, and it was wonderful. And I myself, back in the day you didn't really come out when you were a kid like they do today. So I didn't come out until I was nearly 30. And at that point I was in, at HVS and in, back in the Boulder office before I launched my own division, right before I launched my own division. And the leader of the Boulder office at the time. And the employees in the Boulder office were. Amazing. And like most of my closest friends when I came out it there, it just wasn't any surprise. It was like, okay, thank God he finally came out. But it was that. And then a couple years later, me launching my own division and also the founder of the company and the Rushmore family. Being very welcoming of e of all. They set a great culture from the get go. Their second office ever was co-owned and led by a woman, Suzanne Mellon, who's extraordinary in her own right. And she's been

Rachel Humphrey:

a guest on the podcast as well.

Rod Clough:

Okay, great. Suzanne's amazing and so I was very. I did the work early on to be very confident and proud of who I was and what I represented it, what I represented it in my orientation and also and with my skin color. And I wanted to, and I knew others weren't quite as, didn't have that upbringing that I had that was so positive. I did have my negative moments in there, but they didn't really. Frame who I was. There was a lot of positivity surrounding that and I wanted to be out and celebrate it from the get go. What's happened, interestingly enough over the course of the past five years is that I have, and through the reading I've done and listening that I've done and conversations that I've had, is I've, I have evolved and I am very proud of who I am, but I'm also equally. Proud of and respectful of what everybody else is because everybody is different and comes from their own unique group and they have their own challenges and identities that they come with. So they're all welcome too. So my cisgender white men that are who they are in every way are. If you think about it they're just as different as everybody else's. Like they have their own unique aspects and I hope, and I've engendered a culture where they know that they're just as welcome as my trans staff are, or as my. My conservative Christian staff are versus my agnostic staff are, or atheists. It, it is what it is. Like we're all so different when you get to building these teams. You just want, we wanna focus on the work and we want to focus on funding our passion and working hard, but we want to do so in a place where we know we're gonna be safe. And and that's really what, that's really what I believe in. And so by me just coming out and saying this is who I am, I wanna just put that out there, that I feel safe here. And so you too should feel safe.

Rachel Humphrey:

It's really incredible and I'm very appreciative for your sharing it with us as part of your journey and as part of your leadership as well. When we talk about representation, one other aspect of that, certainly, and you and I have talked about this, is. Representation across industry stages as industry leaders. If most of our industry's leadership maybe fits into one either gender description or race or ethnicity description, how do we make sure that representation that you are experiencing with your company is reflected across our stages? I'm curious in public speaking, because you do a lot of it, whether it's at conferences or podcasts or other things, if that's something you've always been comfortable with, do you have. Process that you implement before you're going to take the stage. Any advice you would have as you're bringing up the next generation of speakers at HVS that you impart on them?

Rod Clough:

Sure. So it, it really wasn't. Something I did very much. It's a new, it's a new muscle for me. I've grown up with a bit of imposter syndrome, I think is the right saying where I have surrounded myself always with even back, gosh to when I was in grade school. I would always find the smarter kid in class and I would become friends with them. I did it all through Cornell. I just would, I would do that and then they would inspire me and really push me, and I would wanna excel as much as they, they were excelling. And so too, here at HVSI, I would surround myself with the best, but. But by doing that, it's a little bit daunting because you wanna take the stage, but you're like, but I'm not quite the smartest person here, so let me have the smartest person take the stage. And so for the first 20 to 25 years of my career, really 25 years of my career, I didn't take the stage because there was always somebody in my mind. That I thought was a little bit smarter and a little bit better than me. I had to completely change my, the way I was thinking about public speaking and and. And embrace and realize that, I am smart enough and I can take the stage and I would take the stage at my company events and I would lead them and people, I would get the entire ballroom laughing and they, I would finish the day at my annual summits and people would just be like, rod, you've got, not to toot my own horn, but they'd be like lying gift on stage. And you made that so much fun and you connected with everybody. Why aren't you doing this more in, in an industry ballroom? And so I finally did, I'm like, you know what? I love being on stage. So let me lean into this. And then, this is only just recently where I realized I I'm beginning to realize that more. It doesn't always just have to be the same two or three people speaking at a company, and that it can be everybody at all levels, because we're all so smart at this. And everybody has a story to tell. So I did, I've been working on it. I've been, I have been training I took a class immersive storytelling, which you, which is a fantastic class taught by Ali Hoit and Carter Wilson. I did that. I through, through that class, really. And other things that I've taken on and other teachings I've taken on the importance of practicing in advance. I, some are even saying, you, you should practice a a speech 15 or 20 times before you give it. That takes a lot of time when it's an hour long speech. So I don't, I'm not quite at that level yet but the importance of practicing recording yourself listening back, planning everything out. It's really a big deal and it does make a big difference. My rule when I take the stage in addition to practicing and making sure that I'm ready to go even if I know the content, like you still need to practice, but, is to I desperately want to the room to chuckle. They don't need to do a belly laugh, but I want a chuckle at some point during the speech. And then I'd love, this has only happened a couple times, but if I can get somebody at the end of the conference when they're. Recapping the highlights of the conference. If one of those highlights could be me that's always a feel good love that it means that, I made an impression because the last thing you want to do. Is b just another one of the very smart and brilliant conference speakers, but the ones where you're like, okay, I can't wait to, for, to get onto the next speaker. This person is just not thrilling me. And so a lot of that does go back to storytelling. What story are you telling? How are you connecting with the audience? How are you making it fun and interesting? And then, yes, throwing in the data and the insight along the way but make it fun.

Rachel Humphrey:

I love the intentionality that you are approaching it with though, with the goals in mind, with the practice investing in yourself to get it right. I also liked what you said about your own imposter syndrome being. A hindrance to your public speaking, but listening to the voices of others who are like, you should be doing this more. And sometimes I find that if I let my support system's voices be louder than my own, then great things can happen after that. I wanna switch gears for a second to building a great team, because you have talked about bringing leaders along who then you allow to lead. You've talked about. Having this team around you. As far as the public speaking goes, having a culture where you want people to feel safe when you're actually interviewing, when you are looking to expand your team, is there an it factor that you're looking for? Is there, are there traits, common traits that you found like, my best hires have kind of these things in common. What are you looking at when you're trying to make those important decisions?

Rod Clough:

So that's a tough one for me, to be honest. The, we have a re a rigorous hiring process where folks initially have to answer some screening questions and then have a screening interview, and then we do a an exam where folks have to do a lot of writing and numerical work and pass the exam with a high score. And then once that's done, we do a day in the life. And we bring somebody into their, the office that they're gonna be in, and they spend a good part of a day with us. Going to lunch, hanging out, looking at what we're doing a couple things to help us out that day and just to see if, see how it's gonna go. But then beyond that, like that's all we can really do. We, depending on how all that goes, we will hire somebody and. And usually it works out. But, every now and then it, it just doesn't. And so for us it's more of a time will tell kind of thing. We do hire I think from the get go but even in our last hiring class, we had. Five, or six people start and two of them, this was back in like March and two of them have moved on. It just didn't end up being a good fit. I will say though, over time, if people stay with it and they love the work and they love the culture, and then they wanna move into that leadership role we do a good job of at embracing that and helping people along that path.

Rachel Humphrey:

I think it's a good recognition that not every fit is a great fit, though. You're right. You can have a great hire and it not be a right fit and vice versa. I could talk with you all day long and we're gonna end up running out time. So I'm gonna do a couple of rapid fire ones with you. There's a. Kind of a renewed interest right now, especially for me, but in self-care and wellness and probably in a lot of the folks that are joining your team. I'm curious if you have a self-care or wellness journey, if you have some non-negotiables. Are you, do you do a good job of taking care of yourself in this demanding role? And what insight or advice would you give to some of our rising leaders who might be struggling to find that balance between establishing a career and taking care of themselves?

Rod Clough:

Yeah, I love this question. I am a huge believer in wellness both education wise and execution wise. I had the busiest month of my last five years, this last month because we landed a huge engagement and going into that, I just knew I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep my fitness going. I've got. I go to the gym every morning to not every morning, but four days out of the week I'll go to the gym for weightlifting, but every day I go walking and I walk for an hour each day, and it's usually my podcast hour. I'll listen to a few of my favorite podcasts or a book. I've got a walking playlist that I have or I'll schedule. I go at a pretty good pace, but I can do some phone calls on, on my walks as well. So I normally start my day between five and 6:00 AM'cause I'm in Colorado and it's, it's early to rise here in Colorado when you live west of New York. And then by nine or 10 o'clock in the morning, I'm ready for a break. So I'll do that. And then that is married with a very. Careful regimen of eating for me and drinking a lot of water no soda. Focusing on my sleep, making sure that I'm in bed every night by 9:00 PM I wake up early but I'm to bed early as well. And we've got a wellness committee at HBS. We do wellness challenges through well able we really we give everybody a water, Tumblr. We, I share my stories of wellness and my staff see that I'm prioritizing wellness. I'm on Strava. They can join me on Strava, they can see where I'm working out, where I'm walking every day. And people love that. They love knowing that if the president's doing it, and the president's stepping away from his desk for an hour to go walking. Maybe I can too. I love

Rachel Humphrey:

the modeling. That's so important. I love that you have the non-negotiables of the walking in the gym. Yeah. And then hydration and other things. Sleep is the one that still alludes me, but I'm trying to get better at it. But I love modeling it and for other people to know that's what you're doing and that it's okay.'cause it really. Forces the importance of it. One of my favorite questions always to ask because I think we are all works in progress and we are all continuing to evolve as people, as careerists, what it may be is what advice we would give to our younger self. So I'm curious, rad, as you sit here today and you think back, whether it be to that boy in the catering department or to you're taking off or graduating from Cornell. What would you tell 18 or 21-year-old Rod, either about how things have turned out for you or maybe something that you wish you knew then that you know today?

Rod Clough:

Oh gosh, there's a lot. I think I wouldn't, I probably wouldn't have jumped so head over heels into my first relationship because it took me a minute to find my current husband and we always think of oh my gosh, what if we had found ourselves a little earlier in life? But that's, that's one thing. I didn't embrace fitness until later on in my life and I love it and I wish I had done that in my twenties. And more reading. I'm just, like I said, I'm a listener, but, and we didn't, I don't think we, there wasn't really a lot of books on tape back then and in the nineties, but but more reading. More reading. I really push with my staff to, we have a dashboard online that pops up on your screen at the beginning of your day. And you put, you can upload your, you're meant to upload a y photo and it sits at the top right hand corner of your screen. And then. Through our Franklin Covey training, which we've done a lot of and continue to we all have our big rocks that you're supposed to be spending time on the stuff that matters and it's important. So you have your y photo and those big rocks and it's all about getting out of the whirlwind of the work and understanding that the work that we're doing at HVS is funding our passion. And I wish I would have done that more as a kid. Of what is my passion? And I don't have to just be working all the time. Like I can actually be spending more of these younger years having just a little bit more fun. I think I would've told my younger self, it's all gonna be okay. You can take some of that money. Instead of socking away and saving it, which saving is good, but maybe have a little bit more fun. I don't think I had enough fun.

Rachel Humphrey:

I love that. I like the, everything will be okay. I feel like that's what I used to my answer to. This used to be the everything will be okay. Now it's more focused on taking care of yourself as part of. Daily routine, but I love that everything will be okay. As we sit here today, thinking about the motto of its personal stories, which is empowering personal success, is there any final advice that you would leave our audience with?

Rod Clough:

I think for personal success, and if I were to just be able to burrow into somebody's soul and to just. Tell them really how, what it means is to, like I said, just to really understand what that bigger picture goal is for you and to really structure time and effort around how does that look in your life and what are you doing? Time is just, I, maybe this happens once you turn 50, I'm not sure. But for me, when I turned 50, all of a sudden time started moving a lot faster than when I was in my thirties and forties. And I imagine when I turn 60 it's gonna move even faster. And I think just taking charge of that understanding that time is moving quickly and it's our most valuable resource. And how are you using it? What are you doing? We put all this planning into our work. How are we gonna complete this assignment and how are we gonna get this out to the client? Why aren't we doing that with our lives? We could be doing, I think, such a better job of that. So that's my advice.

Rachel Humphrey:

That's great advice. Rod, I'm so excited that you joined me today, shared more about your personal journey, some of the things that you've learned along the way. I'm really grateful to have you join the podcast today. So thank you very much for doing so.

Rod Clough:

It's been my pleasure. Thank

Rachel Humphrey:

you very much and to your audience, we hope you've enjoyed my time today with Rod. You can visit over@itspersonalstories.com. If you are out walking on your pod and you wanna be listening to podcasts, we have about 250 interviews with our industry's most impactful leaders. We hope you'll check them out there. But Rod, thank you very much again and thank you for your leadership.

Rod Clough:

Thank you.

I.