It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Petra Deuter, Global Board Director & Interim CEO, interviewed by Lan Elliott

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Having worked in over 25 countries, Petra career has been built on taking risks and leaning into the resilience she’s built along the way.  In this interview, she explains the advantages of interim executive roles and shares the key factors that drove her success. In addition, she details the three things to keep in mind when advocating for oneself.

Lan Elliott:

Hello and welcome to its Personal Stories, a hospitality podcast. My name is Lan Elliot on behalf of its personal stories. And today, really happy to have Petra Deuter, who is global board director and interim CEO and spends most of her time in Europe. And it's just a different way of doing business. So I'm thrilled to have Petra join us, share her perspective. Welcome Petra. Lovely to be here. Lan great to see you. We've talked in the past and I'm in so inspired by your journey. Could you share a bit about your career journey, some of the pivotal points and what you think were critical to your success?

Petra Deuter:

So looking back, I feel that my career has had a lot of inflection points. Change and reinvention have really been the constant, never been one to sit in a comfort zone. So I've often been the first in roles launching something new or leading a transformation, whether that was reviving a struggling business or steering through a crisis many moons ago I started, in travel and hospitality with Lufthansa Cargo in my hometown of Chicago. As an admin or a secretary. We called ourselves to the cargo manager at the time and I worked my way up while also going to university at the same time at night to get my degree in international business. And once I had that, I moved over to the passenger side of the airline and basically. Built what became a fantastic 15 year career in the airline industry. I think of one major turning point. It was when I was promoted to my first management role in New York. It was Lufthansa's first, very first star alliance manager for North America right when the Star Alliance launched with United and SAS and, that role opened international doors, honestly, and set the stage for what became my truly global career. And then just two years later, I was appointed Lufthansa's first female managing director for South America, based in Buenos Aires overseeing, let's say 13 offices in four countries. And that was, I have to say, extremely exciting at the time, but also incredibly challenging. New region, new culture, new language and a major economic crisis in Argentina in 2000 and 2001, which you may remember followed by September 11th. And at the time I didn't have a single peer who looked like me, LAN. There were no other female airline executives. Several years later, I made I think, a big pivot, if not the biggest one so far. Moving back to the US and founding my own contemporary art and antique gallery in Chicago. Personal passion of mine. In a way that path then led me into the hotel industry in Europe. I moved from Chicago to Germany back to Europe, and joined Acor as their global VP of sales, marketing and distribution for 300 plus German hotels. So I basically moved from the airline industry via an art gallery into the hotel business. And then I went on from AUR to hold a number of executive roles for other firms, including interim and startup positions in hotels and real estate across Europe. That includes having worked in Prague, in Marbella, in Florence, Italy and so on, and Malta. And I was then the op, the head of operations and asset management with l and r Hotels. In London managing their Mediterranean assets. So one of Europe's major private investment firms. So yes, change and transformation are what I thrive on. Each shift forced me basically to adapt and grow in new ways.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah, I think it's a great thing when you're able to jump into the middle of something and have that confidence to, to say. I'll figure out how to drive this train while it's moving and we'll figure it out and get going and accelerate. And I think that is a great skill to have the confidence to say yes to those kinds of opportunities and then also get in there and figure it out and not be afraid.

Petra Deuter:

Just speaking of, what the success factors, actually were, if I think back I think the biggest factor has been my willingness, as you said, you, as you said, to step outside my comfort zone and take risks, whether that meant moving to a new country, learning another language, or taking on a role I wasn't really fully ready for, many times I said yes to opportunities that scared me. And then had to learn incredibly fast on the job. Wasn't about being the smartest by any means, the most experience or the most popular in the room. It was about being resilient, resourceful, and figuring things out as I went along, and I've made mistakes, plenty of them, but I pulled myself up and kept going. And I think also that living in eight countries, and as I told you before and working in more than 25. Has also shaped the way I lead. That cross-cultural experience helps you navigate complexity and differences in a way I think no classroom can teach you. And if I think of that most defining early experience in Argentina when I became, the first female managing director for South America during September 11th. That required constant quick decision making, creative cost cutting, and all that communication I had to do with stakeholders in all direct directions. I think that period taught me resilience in a way nothing else could. Diving in there, managing all the issues that I had never done before it's that resilience combined with the ability to solve problems quickly under pressure that has carried me. Through until today.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah. I think resilience is such a great theme and I think all leaders need that, but especially I think in the hospitality and travel business where we are so prone to downturns resilience I think is extremely important in our industry. I wanna touch on interim roles because you had mentioned that and you've moved between permanent CEO roles and interim leadership roles throughout your career, and we don't really see interim roles here in the US that much. It's usually between leaders that you'll have an interim person, maybe a board member will step in, or maybe you'll have someone from the team step in while they're looking for the next CEO. But I think it's a little bit different in Europe in terms of how they approach interim roles. I'm curious why focus on those roles these days? What does it take to succeed in interim executive roles and how is it different than permanent roles, at least in Europe?

Petra Deuter:

That's actually a very good question. In Europe interim management or executive interim management is. Is thriving. It's especially in the German speaking countries in Scandinavia and the uk it's a, full fledged profession, so to speak. And so basically interim and board roles are such a natural fit for the experience I've built over the years. What I also particularly love about it is that they're not about corporate politics, which can be really stifling. Interim roles are about clear mis missions with tangible goals and outcomes. So the assignments for me, they range from exciting hospitality startups, turnaround of an integrated resort, for example, and or building a new brand to an m and a mission. And they were intense transformational, and I had to be very focused doing them. So I often step into these executive level roles during times of change. It could be launching a startup, managing a crisis, restructuring an organization, or steering a sale. It's all about momentum and delivering results under pressure. And as an interim, C-E-M-A-C-E-O, you're usually stepping into a situation where the company needs decisive leadership right away. And that's not only as a filler but also or an outgoing CEO or any other position. Here in Europe they bring in strategic experts in turbulent times. There's no, easing in, basically we have to hit the ground running and make an impact quickly. And so why have I done it? I've had a decades long career. I've had I built so much experience and knowhow how, and that challenge, and intensity really appeals to me, and I like the diverse projects and all the different companies. The different cultures and teams. And I guess I also appreciate the flexibility I have with interim work. Overall. It takes strong focus, as I said and the ability to assess situations and people quickly, stay thick skinned under pressure, concentrate on the mission, and manage these demanding expectations from boards and the owners, without losing your focus. Now board roles on the are basically a bit different. They're more strategic and again they give me the chance to use my global experience to help shape company's direction and advice and, and I can advise them on, governance issues or when they're scaling internationally. And my multilingual background obviously also helps. Understand and connect with the different cultures that the boards have. That ability to bridge cultures and to see the big picture has been a huge advantage for me in both interim leadership and on boards. Most importantly, lan. I'm especially passionate about adding a female and international voice to both executive interim and boards globally. Where diversity is still lacking as we know.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah. I'm curious, how long does a interim role generally last?

Petra Deuter:

Now, I would say, that it's anywhere from, I would say six to nine months. But sometimes it, it can also go up to 15 months. When you look at what the biggest difference really is it's not the time of the assignment, compared to a permanency o role. The biggest difference really comes down to basically this time issue. But, you often, have to also there's no long onboarding, no, let's just get to know the company. You have to walk in, figure out what's going on and start fixing it immediately. And sometimes those fixes really aren't popular, one has to be quite quite thick skinned. But another difference between irregular. CEO managing director in an interim role, in my view, is the mindset. Mindset is another huge difference. Permanent CEOs, they have to balance transformation, let's say with stability. Keep things moving forward without shaking the foundation too much. Interim CEOs. We're brought in for a specific objective, and often that means we're not there to blend in with the existing company culture. We're there to question it. We do turnarounds, lead transitions, launch new businesses just like permanent CEOs. But oftentimes, the companies don't have that expertise within the firm. And you have to be comfortable making tough calls. The pressure and expectations that we have are certainly not for everyone, and what we've realized in Europe, and I'm not sure how it is in the United States, but one frustration I've seen is that basically companies way, way too long sometimes before bringing in an interim expert, they hope things will just get better on their own and by the time they, they call us. Be it an experienced CEO or C-C-O-C-T-O or other, it's almost too late. If they brought in experienced people like us, many crisis could be avoided. It's often intense, it's high pressure, but when it works, it's incredibly rewarding. In my case, I look back to quite a few missions I've had so far, and I built new hospitality businesses. I helped build new resorts in the Mediterranean. I have done an m and a process. I've so helped sell firms and I was really happy when I was able to do that within a very limited, timeframe and was able to have the next buyer take off, take over all of the staff so all the jobs were saved, and that is a really great feeling.

Lan Elliott:

I love that. I love how you lean into challenges and find them exhilarating. And I think part of that is just having that mindset of I'm going to go in and figure it out and learn as I go and make quick decisions. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And also the part of ensuring that you're bringing women along with you as best you can when the right opportunity presents itself. Absolutely. Yes. I wanted to switch gears because you've been open about experiencing ageism in this area. And in Europe, it's quite typical to have your age or your birthdate on your cv, whereas we don't typically have that in the us could you share your perspective on ageism? How do you navigate it?

Petra Deuter:

That's so true that up until recently, one did write on the CCBs how old, our birthdays and how many children we have and things like this. But then now in recent years they have also dis it. It's starting to disappear. But listen, ageism is real and it's more common than we admit, especially for women of my generation. I've seen it globally land. But in recent years working across German speaking countries in the UK and all across Europe, it's been quite pronounced and eye-opening. Just an example, after my last interim CEO role in Germany, which was very successful, I was told quite openly by firms and recruiters afterwards. That my age and particularly my gender, were reasons I wasn't moving forward for certain new opportunities. I tell you, that's mind boggling and not easy to hear. But here's how I look at it. Experience doesn't have an expiration date. In fact, it's one of the most valuable things we bring to the table in leadership. So I stay sharp, I stay curious, I stay informed, and I put my energy into those networks and environments that value real know-how proven results and the ability to deliver. Because those are timeless, aren't they?

Lan Elliott:

Absolutely. And I do think wisdom, which if you think about it, knowledge plus experience. Can be wisdom. Those are the kinds of things that do get better over time. Your ability to recognize patterns, to have seen many things in the past and be able to see what's happening and think, I've seen this before. We've tried a couple things. Those things didn't work. We're gonna do it differently this time and you're not doing things for the first time. You're actually solving problems based on things you've seen before. So I think that can be a great. Reason to hire someone with a lot more experience, but it is an issue. There are no two ways about it. Yes it is. Let's talk about mentors and champions, and we talk about people who can give you advice and wisdom. How important is it to find mentors and champions in the business world and how do you go about it? How have you had mentors or champions advance your career?

Petra Deuter:

Very important question. Basically, I wish I had mentors early on when I started many moons ago. That concept didn't exist for women in leadership. At not at least not that I was aware of until much later. And then not even very widespread. I had no sounding board and I had to learn everything by trial and error. When I think about it, that's why I became a mentor for women myself more than 20 years ago. I saw how important it was to help other women find their voice and navigate the male dominated industry in regards to obtaining senior executive roles, and it's still critical today. Luckily I've had a number of champions along the way, though all male. Who saw my potential and presented me with opportunities to advance my career. They noticed my going the extra mile and supported me. I'm very grateful. I took very opportunity I could get to grow. Basically, I said yes before the question was even asked, and I learned on the jobs. That's

Lan Elliott:

incredible. Any advice for people who are looking to find a mentor or a champion?

Petra Deuter:

Be open and also look outside of our industry. I think that's very it's crucial, and be open also, network. And basically go up to people you admire. If you see someone you admire, be it within our industry or outside of our industry. Approach the person. Most people who will, who you will ask, will be very happy to assist, to support and become your mentor. Wonderful advice

Lan Elliott:

along those lines is advocating for ourselves and sometimes people have trouble. Asking for what they want. It might be a promotion or a raise, or it might be getting on that big project that could lead to great opportunity for you, and not asking for those opportunities can hold people back. What advice do you have for our audience who's struggling to find their voice? What's the right way to ask for something?

Petra Deuter:

I say. Start by knowing your worth and be realistic, and that's not always easy. Many of us, especially women, experience imposter syndrome at different points in our career, and I think it makes us second guess our achievements and hesitate to speak up. But here's what I've learned, clarity, experience, and preparation are your best allies. When you want something, whether it's a raise, a promotion, or a new opportunity, don't ask for it. Emotionally prepare, know what you've delivered, what value you bring, and what outcomes you've driven, and also from which mistakes you've learned. I think that is so valuable also to, to understand and also to bring forward, then practice, and state your case with calm confidence. One doesn't have to be aggressive. Just be clear and remember asking doesn't make you difficult. It shows healthy ambition and that's how you build respect. On the flip side, expressing entitlement I deserve or why don't I have this yet, in particular, if you do not yet have experience and knowhow, it will likely not get you the desired result. Finding your voice is a process anyhow. And ultimately if you don't ask the answer is already. No,

Lan Elliott:

that's true. That was a great lesson I learned early on. You gotta ask, but the courage to ask is a different thing. I wanted to dive into the assertiveness, double bind, which I've talked about a few times on this. Podcast. Which women tend to navigate. It's a bit of a tightrope where if you're too nice, you're not strong enough to be a good leader, and if you're too direct and confident, people don't generally like that coming from a woman, and so people don't like you and you don't have the support in order to move forward. Could you talk a little bit about how you balanced that? Like me, you've allot been the only woman in the room. How do you navigate that tightrope of being strong and kind and balance that?

Petra Deuter:

Absolutely. That's been part of my entire career. There's no sugar coating about that. From the early days right to now, I noticed something the same decisiveness, directness and strategic clarity that earned my male colleagues respect could be judged very different. When it came for me. Sometimes it was labeled as too strong sometimes, maybe several times. The truth is, regardless of what I just mentioned. I've never been someone who beats around the bush. I say what needs to be said, and I say it clearly. I am straightforward and honest with my teams, also in very unpopular missions. But I think over time, and yes, after a few setbacks along the way I've learned that how you deliver that message matters. I started showing not only feeling my genuine compassion, I pair it with my directness. And I think that completely changed the way people receives it. They receive it. It's not about watering down the message it's about bringing people with you and showing that you care, showing that you care. And when you do that, you earn their trust. My teams always know exactly where I stand, and I think that's a positive.

Lan Elliott:

I do think it's become much more popular to talk about empathy as a key leadership trait. And I think maybe combining that, especially if you're a direct person like the two of us are can be really helpful. Especially if you're a woman where that expectation is you're going to be able to do challenging things, have hard conversations. Do it in a way, if you can show empathy.

Petra Deuter:

It's really interesting because on this subject it's not that we've, we haven't had the empathy along the way. It's potentially that we didn't show it for many years. Women tried to emulate men in executive positions and they often didn't show empathy themselves. So I think that in many ways, we adapted to that and now it's just the time where on both sides, men and women, it's okay and it's expected to show empathy.

Lan Elliott:

It's a really good point. Times really have changed and leadership has evolved with it. Let's talk about building high performing teams. Because. In what you do, especially in interim roles, you're stepping into a situation and you have to very quickly make sure you have the right people in order to do whatever that task is, and you usually don't have a lot of time to accomplish it. So how do you approach building high performing teams, and is there one thing that you look for when you're trying to put together a team or interviewing candidate?

Petra Deuter:

It's good if one has good people knowledge. I think that really helps, and that's something that you do acquire over decades of working, especially in the hospitality industry. But whether I'm building a new team from scratch or inheriting one, I always start with the same approach. Get really clear on the goal. Take time to truly listen and understand everybody and set expectations very early. From there. Once again, it's all about building trust and being honest about what's working and what isn't. And a lot of times some of the folks in the group will realize that's maybe not something that they want to continue doing themselves. I think in today's world, strong teams are built on adaptability and transparency too. People need to feel safe to speak up we one tries to create that environment. They need to know they're supported. And also, that once supports their growth, but you also have to keep everyone focused on the mission because when you have the right people and the right roles motivated and aligned, that's when the magic happens. As for what I look for in people whether that's in, in interim roles or in permanent ones, I guess I like seeing initiative. I'm drawn to those folks who step up when the pressure's on the, who go beyond their job descriptions and who deliver, without being asked basically who gets things done. And these are the people you can really rely on. And in high pressure situations, which I'm often in, they're the point people who I then have in my team, they're the heartbeat of any performing high performing team.

Lan Elliott:

Love that. That's great. Great thing to look for in people. Alright. We've come to my favorite question that I ask all of our guests. Which is, what advice would you have for 22-year-old Petra if you were to go back in time and share a piece of advice with her?

Petra Deuter:

That's seems so long ago, LAN mostly I'd say don't waste energy sweating the small stuff. Especially on things that you can't control. But there are also maybe two things I wish I had known earlier, decades ago. First, once you move forward and you step into leadership, don't assume everybody around you thinks or works the same way you do. I'm naturally quick to adapt and embrace change, but not everyone is wired that way. So I learned over time to read the room and to look in the rear view mirror and to make sure the teams are with me and that I haven't left anyone behind. And I think that's, I should have, yeah, I had, it would've been good if I had known that earlier when I got into leadership. And second, and I think this is very important. I would still encourage myself to take bold risks, but I might have done more due diligence on the companies and organizations I joined. Some mismatches might have been avoided and if I had taken more time, let's say, to assess whether their values truly aligned with mine, that's not a regret. It's a learning curve. I think many of us go through, don't we?

Lan Elliott:

Yes, absolutely. But that's part of the wisdom that you gain in the years of experience. True. But I do like also what you said first, which is what I call the platinum rule, which is treat people the way they need to be treated, not necessarily the way that you wanna be treated. I know a lot of times when I was coming up, they talked about the golden rule and I had to discover the hard way that people didn't wanna be treated the way I wanted to be treated. And learning that and learning what each person needed was really the key to connecting. Totally everybody.

Petra Deuter:

Everybody's an individual and everybody, people also want to be managed differently. They're not all the same, as you say. Yeah, absolutely.

Lan Elliott:

Petra, you've shared lots of great advice and I've loved hearing the stories of your leadership over the years. For our audience. Who are watching or listening. Our show is all about empowering personal success. Do you have one final nugget for our audience who are looking to advance their careers?

Petra Deuter:

Maybe that life is going to throw lots of challenges at you. Some of them will feel completely overwhelming in the moment, but you'll get through them. I would say resilience isn't something you're just born with. It's something you build little by little every time you pick yourself up. Even in the chaos, trust that you'll find your footing. Those moments are shaping you into someone stronger, wiser, as we just said, and far more resourceful than you ever imagined, but mostly stay curious, stay adaptable. The world is moving fast, and the people who thrive in my view today, are the ones who lean into change instead of resisting it. And remember your career doesn't have to be straight, a straight line to be a success. I look at mine, some of the most fulfilling careers come from taking the scenic route, detours and all.

Lan Elliott:

I love that. Thank you, Petra, for this wonderful interview. I've so enjoyed our conversation. Every time I talk with you, I really learn something. Thank you very much,

Petra Deuter:

Len. It was

Lan Elliott:

my pleasure. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with our audience and for our audience. If you've enjoyed this interview with Petra, I hope you'll go to our website to find many more interviews with hospitality industry leaders, and our website is its personal stories.com. Thank you.