It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Mark Keiser, President, Development, Viceroy Hotel Group, interviewed by Lan Elliott

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Mark explains how his openness to trying different careers within hospitality and help from mentors helped him discover the area of the industry where he has thrived.  He also shares the tool that allows him to deepen his connection with the many contacts he’s developed over the course of his career, and how listening to his team helps him build higher-performing teams.

Lan Elliott:

Hello and welcome to It's Personal Stories, a hospitality podcast. My name is Lan Elliott on behalf of It's Personal Stories. And today I am really pleased to have a friend on the show, Mark Kaiser, who is the president development at Viceroy Hotel Group. Welcome, Mark.

Mark Keiser:

Thanks. I appreciate you having me.

Lan Elliott:

Absolutely. Mark, I've had the fortune and the past to work in a group alongside you. And so I, one of the things I love about the hospitality industry is that you Work with people and you develop friendships and you get to keep those friendships through many years like we've been able to, and I followed your fascinating career, but I wonder if you might share with our audience some of the inflection points in your career and how you got to where you are today.

Mark Keiser:

Thank you. Yeah, I've been doing this for a little while now. So I going back to the beginning, I was like really curious about I wanted to be in operations. I thought it would be helpful for my career. And so I was always thinking, how do I get operations experience? But I also didn't want to do a traditional like management internship rotational program that Cornell offered, to a lot of students when we were graduating. And so I was able to find my way into helping create a new brand, launch a new brand that had been created by Wyndham Hotels called Homegate Studios and Suites, which is an extended stay brand. And I thought it was just cool. I would be like the special projects manager helping in all aspects of that. And just by, asking a lot of questions, always volunteering to help getting, teased a little bit by my boss for never, quote, having worked a hard day in my life. Since I was in the corporate office, he, I challenged him to put me in as the general manager of a hotel that was being built and he took the bait. And so there was a hotel in Dallas that was under construction and I was. Slotted to be the general manager of it, despite having, very little operating experience. And fast forward to that company being bought. I was able to convince the new company. I ran a hotel for two years. I was able to dip back into the corporate world, work in finance get a little taste of development moved to New York when I was recruited to join Bear Stearns covering the lodging stocks and equity research. Um, that was not the right place for me in terms of what I enjoyed doing and went back to my passion, which is business development and growing brands. And I was able to do that for, 10 years or so with Starwood hotels. I wanted, to break out from being just purely on the Americas team and do something globally, which led me to the opportunity to work alongside Barry Sternlicht and the Starred Capital team to, to launch and grow the One Hotel brand, the Baccarat brand, and then ultimately the Treehouse brand. And that then led me to where I am ultimately with Viceroy. And like you were mentioning, then there's a number of us who have worked together in the past who are now all working together at Viceroy but there's also some people on the team who worked at Morgan's Hotels together and also are reuniting, and so there's a really nice group of people who have known each other for a long time, either all in direct experience or in some combination. Of the group. So it's great. I'm super excited to be where I am now.

Lan Elliott:

One of the wonderful things about our industry is that it's seems like a big industry, but it's actually much, much smaller than it appears at first. And you do get to run into people again, work with people again in the future. You had mentioned curiosity earlier, and I'm curious if there are any specific factors that you think contributed to your success along the way.

Mark Keiser:

I think that like interest in having a broader base of knowledge not going so specific into one particular aspect of hospitality early on and being willing to, to to try new things. I thought I might want to be a lawyer at one point. And so I was offered the opportunity to spend some time working on a couple of sale lease back deals and really getting into the nitty gritty on that. And it saved me two years, of my life and a lot of money, lost books, like that wasn't what I wanted to do. And with equity research, I realized, I loved doing the thoughtful research pieces and I love telling the story and advising, portfolio managers of what, they could do to make money based off of my ideas, but The hundred pages of charts and text, you know It was not where I wanted to spend the time particularly when I realized that none of the pms actually read The book that you had written. They just wanted the answer. And so Had I not done those things though I don't think that I would understand the industry the way that I do. And wouldn't have met, the people who I've met along the way. And so I think it's, I think it's super interesting. And one of the most interesting aspects of my job now is really learning new markets, meeting people, hearing their stories. So many people find their way into hotel ownership. through non traditional paths, like successful people who've decided all my life I want to do in a hotel, but I have no idea how to do it, how to build one, how to buy one. And there's pitfalls along the way, there's so many interesting people who are involved in the hotel business and, markets evolve new markets get created. And so that's really, fascinating for me to watch as well and be a part of.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah, you mentioned a number of really great themes in terms of being open to experiencing different areas of the industry to try out. Is this for me? Is it not for me? And I also find that with students coming out of. University, they might have a hotel degree and they're trying to figure out where do I want to go? And I do think there is that aspect be okay with trying different things and if it's not for you, that's great You learn something and go try the next thing and see what really fits you and that you're passionate about doing Because it does eventually float to the top

Mark Keiser:

Yeah, I think Probably what influenced me the most in that regard was When I was considering the hotel school at Cornell, my parents were largely against it. And they both went to different colleges within Cornell and had met there. And so I thought that this would be something they'd be really excited about. And they said, just go and get a general degree. Don't specialize in a particular business. So early on, you never know if that's really, you're 18 years old, that's really what you're going to do for your career. And so having, convinced them. Nonetheless, to allow me to go to the hotel school, I thought, okay that's stuck with me. Don't narrow your focus even more specifically than that. See where this leads you. And in. Look for opportunities to continue to learn.

Lan Elliott:

Absolutely. I think that's so true. And one of the great things about hospitality is you can have almost any degree or any career within hospitality. You can get a degree in hospitality, but you could end up working in Potentially design later, you could end up working on the development side or operations. There's so many different things you could do technology, almost anything you could think of, you could do it within the realm of hospitality. So I love that thinking. Wanted to move on to taking risks because one of the things that you do every day is take calculated risks and the deals that you choose to work on the owners that you select to become partners when you negotiate a deal for your brand. Could you talk a little bit about? taking risks and how you prepare yourself mentally to take a chance on something.

Mark Keiser:

Yeah, it's a, it's a great question. It's a little bit more art that an experience than it is, a structured sort of discussion or decision tree for development. I really think, over weighting who you're doing business with is incredibly important. Valuable lesson that I've learned along the way if something is an A plus location looks amazing, but you just don't feel like this is the right person or organization to do business with it generally. And if somebody is really, experienced, cooperative, transparent, ethical and you're deciding to hold hands and do something that's maybe a B plus location versus an A, when problems come up, which they always do over the course of a, 10, 20, 30 year relationship you're gonna solve them and you're gonna make, you're gonna find opportunities that benefit both sides. But I think that's a big part of it. I think, the other pieces you have to have confidence in the value proposition that you bring and what the alternatives to your brand are and what their strengths are. And And where your strengths lie. And with that and listening a lot, to the other side as part of the negotiation, then you can decide where you want to, to hold the line and where you might be able to give some flexibility. I also think like leveraging other people, within your organization to be able to take a hard line, but maybe have somebody else be able to soften it or to use somebody to. extract, um, a better deal than where you've gotten to on a second occasion versus racing it and trying to, be too cavalier and drive the person off. But I think really engaging and listening to, to what their needs are is really the best way to mitigate those risks.

Lan Elliott:

Absolutely. And I do really, Believe the way that you do that, who you go into business with, who you do a deal with matters so much more than maybe the location. Because at the heart of it, if you have the same intent, you'll figure out a way to get there, but it's also a hard lesson to learn that you could have a great location and what seems like a great organization. But really, if they're not looking to partner and work together, there's very little you can do to negotiate or contract around that lack of seeing things in the same way. So relationships being really important. And

Mark Keiser:

I think the other thing is, I've worked for. Both big institutional brands, through Starwood Hotels and then entrepreneurial brands, with SH Hotels and now with Viceroy. And the more entrepreneurial brands attract more entrepreneurial owners in the beginning, and then they generally evolve into more institutional owners. And so that creates its own set of challenges because there, isn't necessarily a long history of what happens when this happens. counterparty experiences a recession, which, happens in the hotel business, alongside the consumer market. And you know when it's going to happen during the ownership period. Of or at least the term of the management agreement likely during the ownership period, and you don't know how that counterparty is going to react, whereas, if it's a big institutional REIT or private equity partner there's history there, and so that's part of the risk profile and figuring out as part of those upfront discussions, like, how do you think about this? How do you, what's your intent when things get tough, right? It can't be, Purely a one sided, outcome

Lan Elliott:

for sure, because everything is great when the market's great and everybody's making money and you're building a beautiful hotel and it's opening and you've got the opening party and everyone's happy, but it's really what happens when there is the inevitable downturn in our industry and how are they going to handle it? And how are they going to think about that? Absolutely. The next thing I wanted to talk about, is developing a network. Because this is something that you do really. Mark, and just your genuineness, your warmth, that always comes through, and I'm curious how you've developed your network in a way that is authentic to you, because I've seen it really work very successfully, so I'm curious how you've done that.

Mark Keiser:

Thank you, first and foremost. I, it's come naturally to me, so I've been, fortunate in that regard. I remember At a really young age, just, walking up to people and talking to them at conferences and taking business cards because that was, what you did back then. And and then one day realizing that I had a thousand contacts or two thousand contacts and being like, wow I wonder how that happened. And, and. One thing that I did and tried to do is note where I met the person in the notes of the contact. And it's proven to be such a great tool later when, A lot of people in my contacts, their title is like associate and they're like, now the founder or senior managing director or whatever it is. And if you can ground it with Oh, we met back in October of 2007 at Alice, or something like that. I think it's been. Immediately it makes you tighter of a bond with the person because and it's great, like I don't do it to impress people. I do it because I find it really interesting and it helps my own memory and brings me back to that, time that we first met. But I also think this is, you're building a long career and the hospitality business, like many businesses is small. And thinking about things and, being, kind to people, it's going to pay back, over a long period of time because, arrogance, might work for you when you're in a really strong position but over the long term of your career, there's going to be times when you're going to want to rely on your network for assistance in some way. And if you're, The memory that somebody has of you is that time when you were a jerk your ability to, to have them as an advocate later is pretty low.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah, it's great to have that long term view of the relationships because you never know if you're going to run into them across the table or that you might one day be reporting to them and you never know. I love the tool of noting where you met people. The one thing I've always wished in my contacts is it would tell you when you created that contact because that would help, but it really doesn't. And so I started doing the same thing. I started marking down. Where I met someone, or if there was a deal that I worked on them with, and that just helps to ground where you know, someone from, especially because you might have these contacts over years. You have many of them and how do you remember where it's from? So I love that tool shifting gears to mentors and champions. I'm curious your thoughts on how important it is to find mentors and champions in the business world. And how does one. Go about it. And have you had any that have advanced your career?

Mark Keiser:

Yeah, I've been super fortunate. And the, I was thinking about your question of how you find one because you, you don't just walk up to somebody and say, Hey do you want to be my mentor? And more often I found that when there is an assigned mentor, it's not as natural as when. You create the relationship organically. I think my first real mentor evolved because I just kept asking her to show me more things or let me work on more things or what else can I do to help? And I, Doing an admirable job on what I was asked to do, it just bloomed into more and more things and that person's Judy Hendrick, who I think her retired as CFO of Ambridge but Judy would give me the opportunity when I said, Oh I want to be a lawyer, as I mentioned, or there was a sort of an ornery general gentleman who, People have struggled to, to to work for on the development side at Wyndham. Jerry Thaley, who's since passed away, but he became one of my, biggest mentors. And and with him, it was like, this was a person who, I think was generally misunderstood by people who worked with him. All he wanted was to like, tell him when he could do something, deliver on that timeframe. If he couldn't do it on that timeframe, make sure you told him in advance. But more importantly, just when he said, Hey, I need this on my desk by tomorrow afternoon, just, I would tell him like, I got all this other stuff. Like I can do it. By this day and and if you push back I would just be like, we'll talk to judy like she can Reorganize my priorities, but between the two of them and Judy to this day and Jerry, until he passed they were incredibly helpful when I was leaving Bear Stearns and and looking for and seeking out a job at Starwood Hotels. I found out that Jerry was negotiating a deal with Starwood on something in Puerto Rico with one of our old partners and then I was like, Jerry, can you put in a good word? And that, accelerated the recruiting process to that role. And then we ended up doing two deals together on the opposite side of the table instead of on the same side. And that sort of just continued, and I think, There's been several others, along the way, Alison Reed, it's a good friend and mentor but I think it all started with with working hard, with doing a great job and then showing a curiosity and interest in doing more and and being available outside of just the, I've got my work done and leave I've got my work done. What are you working on? What's interesting that's going on that I'm not seeing? And and that's really created a lot of opportunities for me.

Lan Elliott:

I love the theme of curiosity, and it's one of the things that is a trait and many leaders that has helped lead to their success, and I love hearing how your curiosity has also led to developing your relationships with your mentors and not just doing your job well, but also being curious about what else is out there. What else can I learn? So that's really wonderful.

Mark Keiser:

Yeah. And I think, I hope that, I hope that there's a few people, 20 years from now that are like, Oh yeah, Mark is great guy. Help me out this way too. I think that's a big part of it too, is, is learning from how people helped you and then being able to turn around and help, other people as well, who you work with or who work with you tangentially, if not directly for,

Lan Elliott:

absolutely passing it on, passing it forward to the next generation is super important. I wanted to touch on overcoming self doubt, and I don't know if this is something you ever suffer from, but sometimes we can be our own biggest critics and that noise in your head can get really loud. Do you ever experience self doubt? And if so, what strategies do you use to stay positive?

Mark Keiser:

I feel in the case of S. H., starting the development effort of a brand or brands, and then in the case of Viceroy helping restart the efforts of growth of a brand, there's plenty of opportunities where you wonder if you're going to be successful, if you can, encourage people who have other brands in mind who haven't heard of and, in some cases or heard of and haven't heard of for a long time and others and wondered what was going on. And so I think there's always an opportunity where you can look back and be like, this is hard work, right? This is not answering the phone. And, taking a, an order, this is going out and convincing people. And um, I think back on previous times when I'd, when I've, faced adversity and then persevered, and that gives me. A level of confidence that I can do it again. But I also I try and relish in the success that we, we're able to accomplish. And for the tough times, it makes it better knowing that Oh We did do and accomplish X, Y, and Z. And so to me, I think it's important to, to celebrate the successes along the way, because that's a positive reinforcing behavior for those moments when you're like, Oh, like, why did they pick this other brand? Clearly we have a more compelling story. Did I do something that I shouldn't have done or could have done better, or like, how could I have influenced the outcome differently? And then, I take a lot of confidence from, from past successes and. And try and keep moving forward.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah, you said two really important things there, I thought, including holding on to your successes in the past to be able to fuel you when things don't go your way, but also taking the time, which can be hard to do this self reflection to say, how could we have done it better? What would have made the difference for the next time to use that as a way to propel you forward in the future to maybe do it differently or try it differently and see if it goes better another way? So I love that. One of the things you've had to do a number of times in your career is building high performing teams. Obviously, when you're on the transaction or brand development side, it's all about how many deals can you close? What are you getting done each year? And As you go up in your career and you start to supervise other people and have teams that work for you, it's really important to be able to build high performing teams. And I'm wondering how have you handled that in the past, either when you've gotten to build a team from scratch or when you've been handed a team that you need to ensure is successful? How do you think about that?

Mark Keiser:

One thing I think is really important is You know, being really clear about what the objectives are and, what success looks like, because there's a lot of people who, particularly in the inheriting bucket If given a clear instruction, they may choose not to be part of the team, and you can help them find something that suits their interests and desires better. And if you're able to find a role that plays to their strengths differently, then, then that helps the overall team, of course, but also enables you to find the person in the right position. With the right characteristics for, for the particular role. And so I think that is really important. And and then listening to your team. I've learned a lot from people who have been on my team about how I could do things differently and better. And I think that's, like incredible. And so I think, it's not just giving direction to people on your team, but really opening yourself up to learn from them as well. And, they're part of the audience, perhaps in a pitch where they don't have as big of a role and can read, the pieces in the room and help the team perform better on future pitches or future negotiations. I think that's a really important aspect is, involving everybody at different levels of the team in, evaluating what's working well and what's, what could be improved. And I think just being really clear on what the goals are and how we win together and, and then I think it's, probably pretty obvious, but. I've, I think it's important that you let people see the whole process play out, not just their role in it. If there's important calls I'm more apt to include anybody who's, has a role on the project, as opposed to, okay, I gotta handle this. This is an important one, because I think that, A full understanding of what goes into getting from the beginning of a deal to execution and beyond only benefits, the team and the ability for everybody to contribute and grow the business. So those are just a few of the ways that I think about it.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah. I like the set clear direction upfront and there is some self selection if people aren't on the same page, but I also, What really resonates with me is this idea of including people, especially junior people or people who are more tangential to the deal in calls. And I always appreciated when I was younger, being allowed to sit in on those calls. And it just provides you so much more context and understanding of the greater deal. And you might be, when you're junior working on one aspect of it, but seeing the whole big picture and how your piece fits into it just provides. Not only more context for that person, but more of a connection to the transaction and all the players that are involved.

Mark Keiser:

Yeah. And for the, for the younger, listeners, a big part of that is, is. showing up and being, professional and engaged, right? Like when you are invited to meetings that, you know, or provide that opportunity, don't try and do other work at the same time. Don't look down at your screen, be really engaged in life. And that is going to create a lot of opportunities for you. One

Lan Elliott:

of our favorite questions on our show is What advice would you give to your younger self? And I think this advice that I would give myself would have changed over the years. And so I'm curious, Mark, for you at this moment in time, what advice would you give to 22 year old Mark?

Mark Keiser:

Yeah, It's hard for me to narrow down, exactly one, but the one that I landed on is you're never as good of a multitasker as you think you are. Everybody thinks oh, I'm great at doing two or three things at the same time. And no one is the you're far better if you focus on, one thing at a time, of course there'll be things, where you need to, to multitask. But if you're able to really concentrate and get each thing done properly, you'll be amazed at the improvement and the quality of your output. And I look at it, when I look back at an email and I was like, Oh man, what did I say right there? That's a little out of, and I was like, oh, yeah I was, also on the phone, with so and so at the same time, and and I don't think that's a byproduct of my age, but I think it's, I think it's true all the way, from young to old. Everybody thinks oh, I'm great at multitasking, and you hear people, profess, this to be one of their biggest skills.

Lan Elliott:

But you don't think it exists.

Mark Keiser:

I, I think you're always better trying to

Lan Elliott:

To focus. Tackle one

Mark Keiser:

thing at a time.

Lan Elliott:

For sure. I definitely think when it comes to things that you're doing with other people, just that moment of being present is so important and yeah, just not being on your phone while you're talking with other people Yeah,

Mark Keiser:

it plays entirely into that, when you're, someone's in front of you and you're like, I don't know, I'm listening while you're like packing away your your phone, People don't believe that you're really listening, and you probably are catching two thirds at best of what they're saying.

Lan Elliott:

Yeah, it's true. I agree with that. Mark, coming to the end of the show and keeping in mind that the mission of its personal stories is around empowering personal success. Wondering if you could share one final nugget of advice with our audience who are looking to advance their careers.

Mark Keiser:

I think it can stick with where you are. Talking earlier about building your network. I think that meeting people, hearing their stories, listening a lot to what they have to say. You learn so much more listening than talking. And and people are more willing to help than I think. younger people believe to be the case. And I think that, it's been a big part of my career, where people are like, Oh, yeah, I remember like meeting you, blah, blah, blah. And and when you call them and ask them for, for data or information or advice people are more willing to be helpful, but it is a bit of a numbers game. The more people that you meet and have a positive impression on, the more successful I think you'll be when you need, to reach out to your network to, to grow your career. And so to me starting young I think there's an interest in talking to recent graduates, college students, younger professionals, as well as people who are more senior. Like I try and, learn from as many people as I can. And I think that has to do a lot with, having a strong network and understanding the value of it. So that would be my key advice.

Lan Elliott:

I love that advice. That's really wonderful. And I completely agree. I think it's very intimidating when you're a young person to reach out to someone who's much more senior to ask for advice or input. But it's definitely a muscle that, You want to develop early and I could have developed it much earlier to ask for help and it can be a little vulnerable to do that, but you're right. It's a numbers game. And I think many more people are willing to help than not. And it's worth it. And like you said, you can develop some mentors that way.

Mark Keiser:

Yeah. And to that point. And, don't always reach out to the most senior person in the organization, right? There's, a VP level may have more interest, more ability, a senior vice president, director, if you reach out to the CEO, the likelihood you get a response diminishes greatly. And and pick your entry point and build your network from there.

Lan Elliott:

Great advice. Especially. Yes, I agree. Thank you, Mark. That was wonderful. I so appreciate your time and your generosity, which is what I've always experienced with you is your warmth and your generosity. And I thank you for your friendship. All these years and also for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom with our audience.

Mark Keiser:

I feel the same way about you, Lan. Thank you for having me and I'll see you soon.

Lan Elliott:

Thank you. And for our audience, if you've enjoyed this interview with Mark, I'll hope you'll go to our website. It's personalstories. com where you can see more interviews with incredible hospitality industry leaders. Thank you.