It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Dr. Kelly McGuire, Managing Principal Hospitality at Zs interviewed by Dorothy Dowling

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Join me on It’s Personal: Journeys and Wisdom in Hospitality with Dr. Kelly McGuire. From academia to early SaaS revenue management innovation, pioneering revenue strategy in casinos, and consulting in commercial strategy, Kelly shares her journey of embracing change, learning, and self-advocacy. An inspiring career story you won’t want to miss!

Dorothy Dowling:

Greetings. I am Dorothy Dowling and welcome to It's Personal Stories, a hospitality podcast that highlights the inspiring journeys of leaders in the hospitality industry. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to personal empowerment. I am delighted to welcome Dr. Kelly McGuire, Managing Principal Hospitality at Zs. Kelly, it's an honor to have you with us today.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Oh it's my pleasure, Dorothy. I'm really looking forward to the conversation. Thanks for having me.

Dorothy Dowling:

Oh, yes. We're delighted to have you. So Kelly, we always start with asking folks to give us a little bit of background on their career journey. And you have worked extraordinarily hard to earn your doctorate and are now in driving important growth at CS and the revenue management commercial leadership space. Can you share your career journey with our audience?

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Sure. Happy to do it. So I so I have a master's and a PhD from the from the hotel school at Cornell. And prior to the masters, I was in food and beverage. I worked, I ran restaurants, most notably I ran a Ben and Jerry's franchise in the French Quarter in New Orleans for Just under a year before I joined the master's program. So I came in with this operational background, but of course, any degree is going to change your whole perspective. So I came out of the master's with with a real passion for data analytics and technology and my first intro to revenue management. So for a couple of years, I worked for a technology company that did back office administrative support for food service organizations. And I was working at the time on one of the very first applications of software as a service, but we didn't even call it that. At the time we were talking about this hosted centralized back office solution. So I learned a lot about how technology works and how it's architected. But I still had that underlying passion for revenue management and my advisor from The master's program invited me to come back and work on the PhD, which was a personal passion of mine and also a family passion as well. My father is a professor and he has a PhD and I grew up in the environment. And so I like to say I went in the family business. But while I was working on the PhD, I was building up all this expertise in kind of the analytics and technology side of revenue management at a time where all the conversations about big data and analytics were really amping up in industry. So as I was finishing the PhD, I realized that I had a real strong drive and passion to to go back into industry where I could immediately apply some of these skills in this area, this super complex, but what would become very business critical area for hospitality. So I joined SAS, which is an analytics company. And our mission there was to. Was to help SAS modernize the practice of hospitality revenue management. And this was in the 2008 2009 timeframe. It was right as we were starting to see, Expedia really gaining momentum. We were so the were on the scene that the transparency of price and industry really shifted and the revenue management systems as they were constructed were struggling to add value in this new environment. So we I was part of the team that. Decided to acquire ideas the revenue management company and worked with them for a bit on now that SAS had our powerful analytics platform, we had all the industry expertise that ideas brought to the table. Can we take out a white sheet of paper and reinvent how analytically revenue management is solved to meet what was happening in the market at the time. So that was super fun. I then expanded my role a bit. I became the executive director of our hospitality and travel global practice. So my role there was to bring Analytics and data use of data to industry and also bring industry back into SAS so that our solutions could better meet the need of industry. And I was traveling around the world, evangelizing to the industry about the value of data and analytics. And that was really fun. I got to see a lot of different contexts around the world of how analytics was being used. I got recruited from there by Wyndham and at the time that was Wyndham worldwide. So I was recruited into the destination network line of business, which was vacation rentals. And this was in around 2016 when Airbnb hit the scene and this whole notion of alternative lodging was really coming to the forefront. And so that was the business that Wyndham was in at the time. And I, my, me and my team were building custom pricing solutions for that, those vacation rental lines of business, which was a really fun flavor of the revenue management problem that I got to play around with. But while I was there, I got recruited and an offer. I couldn't refuse to join MGM out in Las Vegas. And rethink from an analytical but also organizational perspective, how revenue management was delivered in the casino industry. And that is a really tough offer to refuse because that business is absolutely fascinating. So I got to do that 40, 000 rooms in Las Vegas, all the ancillary revenue, understanding how you deal with casino segment against retail segment against the very powerful group and convention segment. Having a really good time doing that. And then MGM went through a kind of a business re optimization. They eliminated 1100 leadership jobs and mine was one of them. So I I, what position was eliminated in spring of 19. And that was actually a great time to explore with the backing of my employment contract what I would do next. So I traveled the world, I get to go time for myself. And that's when I discovered ZS. And ZS's mission was similar to mine. What I've been wanting to do my whole career, which was, how do we just continue to push the industry and their use of data and analytics? How do we help lift the practice of revenue management? So we lift the industry from that perspective. And that's what I've gotten to do ever since I joined ZS. Never thought I'd be a consultant Dorothy, life takes you on these paths and prepares you for it. And I ended up in a place that I love, which is a really great fit.

Dorothy Dowling:

And I just think your breadth and depth of experience, Kelly, I am sure your clients are incredibly appreciative of the subject matter expertise and the, and just the contextual understanding that I'm sure you bring to helping them solve problems.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah that, that has been my mission. Really. This is a very complex area. I was fortunate to have time and space in my career to really go deep, to study it, to understand the implications. And and was strongly focused right from the beginning on breaking down that complexity and turning it all into very business accessible concepts. And so I'm pleased that I've been able to assist. That in that sort of personal mission in industry for the course of my career.

Dorothy Dowling:

Yeah. I know we'll talk a little bit more about that, but the one thing you didn't mention on your career journey was you're becoming an author. I don't know if you could share a little bit more about that.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah. Thank you for that, and thank you for allowing the plug. Yeah, so I, I got into blogging pretty actively when blogging was hot. Back in the early 2010s. And SASS happened to have a program at the time that an arrangement with Wiley Books that they would, put certain SASS folks forward to be an author. So I was encouraged by leadership to give that a try. And since I had a foundation of material I thought I would. And so they asked me to put a proposal in. I thought I had one book in me. It turned out I had two. And I went through the process of publishing. So I do have two books. The first is called Hotel Pricing in a Social World, and it is really targeted at revenue leaders and their peers to understand, you Sort of the influences on modern practice of revenue management and how organizations should be thinking about approaching those challenges. And the 2nd book is called the analytic hospitality executive and designed to do similar demystify. And the practice of bringing analytics and data driven decision, making into an organization and how organizations can take advantage of that. And, Dorothy they're both still relevant. They're both available. on Amazon, make great stocking stuffers for your favorite hotel. You're just plugging that. But what's interesting how I'm gonna take the opportunity, but what's really been interesting about those books, right? One the internet reminded me the other day that I was doing book signings about nine years ago for the first book. The second book came out about a year and a half, two years later. There's no mention of artificial intelligence in hotel pricing in a social world. And there's half a paragraph in the analytic hospitality executive. And that was less than 10 years ago. So when we think about what's happened in industry, I think I have another book or two in me, honestly.

Dorothy Dowling:

I think you do. And I know there'd be many that would love to. Have that as part of their personal collection. So thank you for sharing about your authorships. I'm wondering if you've had a personal mantra that has helped really shape your personal career success, Kelly.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah. I, I have always lived by the mantra of be kind and be grateful. And I think about what what those two words mean for every interaction that I've had. And that's been a longstanding, that my parents taught me that back in the day. And, we, as a family, we sometimes. make a little gentle fun of my mother for overthinking. She's really good about thanking, but it instilled that as, it's just a natural fallback for me. And I can tell you, Dorothy, in my career, I've never once been criticized for overthinking. I think we don't thank people enough and we're not grateful enough to, to those around us and the work that they do to help support us. So be kind and be grateful is how I approach it.

Dorothy Dowling:

I think that's a beautiful mantra. So I would love to see your mother again. I know I had the pleasure of meeting her when you got the Vanguard award, which I know we'll talk about soon, but I'm wondering if we can talk now more about career champions and people that have powered your career through their mentorship or allyship. So I'm hoping you might share some of that with us.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah, for sure. It is, um, I was reflecting on this. I've, I took, I think Slightly different approach to what's traditional. That's worked really well for me. So I have two, two comments on this first, when it comes to mentorship, I think through my career, instead of having, one mentor or one go to, I, I built myself a board of directors as I like to call it. And that served me really well. So I have a handful of folks that I trust that know me from various aspects of my life and and I can call on them when I need, Advice or prepping up that's in there, specific area of expertise. And so I and so I. Whether it's navigating politics or or bouncing ideas about industry solutions off of this group of folks. And that's really served me. It's been very important to it also makes me feel like I'm not having to search out that perfect chemistry for a one on one relationship, which can be really tricky. So I've often encouraged young people that come to me asking about my advice and mentorship is to think of that kind of structure. It takes a little bit of pressure off both sides as you think about putting that group together. But I love that you said allies to Dorothy, because I think that this is something that we don't always Think of first and an ally could be, appear, it could be someone else in the network that isn't in that, that sort of mentor mentee relationship. And I can tell you that to me, you know, where that sort of reared, it's or where the importance of that was made most relevant was when I was at, when I was at sass a leadership role on the team opened up. And I hadn't been there that long. I was a little bit nervous about, and. My boss had asked me to help recruit for the leader, who's going to be the leader of me. And I thought, Oh, this is great. I'll get to pick my leader. This will be great. You do want that kind of influence. So I recommended a few folks and they happened to fall through. So I was at I was at lunch with, Some of my work peers and friends and my friend said to me, wait a minute, Kelly, why haven't you gone for this job? I'm like he didn't ask me. So I, and I'm new and I'm not sure. And she said, Kelly, these jobs at this company don't come up that often. If you pass this up now, it could be years. We're very flat organization. I think you need to challenge this. I think you need to go find out why you weren't considered for the job. Put your candidacy forward and figure out what you need to work on. Worst case scenario, you get some good advice. I was absolutely terrified, but she pushed me, right? She pushed me. And I remember I had to call her like the two minutes before I walked into his office for the one on one. And I was like, what'd you tell me to say again? What'd you tell me to say? But, I screwed up my courage. I merged right in there. And I said, Tom, I'm really interested in this leadership job and you didn't consider me for it. And I would like to know why I probably said it like a thousand miles an hour. Just terrible. I remember shaking. And he looked at me and he said, you know what, Kelly, I didn't consider you for this job and I'm not sure why I think you'd be perfect for it. And by the end of the next day, he had called his boss and I was in the role. This It was the ally that pushed me into that, right? It was somebody in my peer group that I was sharing career challenges with. That was really on my side that wanted the best for me. And the power of that community that's around you, I think is critical. And there are also many other lessons about taking charge, always asking that I've learned, but I'll never forget that moment. It was really, super impactful. And if I hadn't had that ally that pushed me. I don't know. I wouldn't be sitting here today. I don't think so.

Dorothy Dowling:

Those are both good stories for us all to learn from Kellyanne. And I do know this formulation of a personal board of directors has gotten a lot of traction, particularly last few years coming out of Kobe. And I think the way you contextualize it in terms of saying it, it allows you to have several people in your network that are Giving you different perspectives and context to really support your career growth. I also love the way you talk about a peer being an ally to push you. Many people it's, a senior person that's speaking up for them in the room when they're not there, but just having someone that Actually really thinks about you and your career and is able to, say it as well as she said, in terms of what's the downside here, you're, worst case scenario, you're going to end up with some good career advice. Thank you for sharing that because I do think sometimes having others that. Push us and help us see how others might see us is incredibly valuable to all of us. You've made some big moves in your career and you've made some geographic moves as well as career decision moves. I'm wondering how you can if you could share about how do you approach some of these major changes in terms of thinking about the risks that you're taking?

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah, I I certainly have a lot of experience navigating through change for sure. I, to me. I I would, as I made these switches, it was all very personal purposeful in terms of what I wanted to be doing. And I was super excited about these opportunities, but they did move me ping ponging back and forth across the country many times leaving, communities in life behind. And I think, I, what I try to do sort of two things. in, in these big change situations, keep my focus on the excitement about what's coming next and why I made the change and the positive on it, and then take it one step at a time. So everything is not going to be fixed. The moment you land, you're not going to have the dry cleaner, the doctor, the, the dog stand, whatever it is you do. And you're like, immediately, you're not going to have, your big circle of friends, but one step at a time to navigate through that. Of course, I have to keep reinforcing that one step at a time thing because I'm like a super optimizer. I'm just like, I'm the worst of, I, everything has to be, planned out, nailed down and not only that, but best possible, most efficient outcome, right? So I'm very tempted. I lay out all my one steps and I'm like, let's go, right? But, and it's good to plan in that way. But within that you have to understand it isn't going to happen overnight. And there's going to be a lot of things you can't control that happen. And so another thing I do try to remind myself is the benefit of this plan is not so that we get everything done in the most efficient way possible. The benefit of the plan is we've planned everything we know we can control so that we can handle the things we can't and so that we can navigate through the, whatever the unforeseen or unintended would always be in a big change. I think that's how I.

Dorothy Dowling:

I think that's really great advice. I have also made a lot of moves in my career and made a lot of geographic moves. And I do think that one step at a time is really great advice. Cause, cause it is very disruptive. Your entire life is. In a moment of change, and I love the way you reference the dry cleaners, because for me, it was the hair salon, the dentist, the doctors, all of those things that you have to reestablish, and it destabilizes your life in some ways until you get all of that. Sorted through. So I do love the one step at a time, and I do love putting a plan in place so that you can manage what you can control and be more comfortable with all the things that you can't control. So that's really extremely beneficial. So thank you for that.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Dorothy, I'm famous for having flown from DC to Las Vegas for a year. To see my stylist, because it was just too much, it was quite an expensive haircut. But but you know what I thought that's what I needed to feel good about myself. And I had some friends back there, so I, that helped ease the transition from from Vegas to DC. I found someone fabulous here eventually through the network, but yeah, that's, I. I did that. I did that.

Dorothy Dowling:

That is an amazing story. So thank you for sharing. I'm wondering if you can talk about relationships because you have nurtured a really amazing community. It is, I know, very intentional on your part, but I would love to hear how you have built and nurtured those relationships in your career.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah. Thanks, Dorothy. This is a I love this question. My approach to building any relationship, but especially the professional ones has always just been to be just authentic and approachable and genuine. And I just happened to be fortunate that I love what I do. And I love the people around me that do what I do and that I get to do this thing with. And so I am approaching every conversation with someone new in that I can potentially build a relationship with just genuine curiosity. And I leave myself open, to to, being able to have conversations about interesting things that are happening in their world and to learn from it and just and I do, I think, just be really authentic about that interest. And I think. That's that's always been important to me. Approachability is also important. If you, if I lead with the pedigree that lead people to believe I might be in some sort of lofty, whatever, and harder to talk to one of the biggest compliments I got, I wasn't actually there for, but I I did the one of the lightning rounds at HSMAI early days. And my whole thesis was, Revenue Management's Awkward Teenage Years, and it was basically a stand up comedy routine. And my good friend Kathy Marr said that in the middle of the presentation, the person in front of her turned around to her and said, that's the PhD? And I thought, that's exactly how I want to approach the world, right? Cause I want to I can't get in these. Really interesting conversations. If people think I'm going to keep them at arm's length. And then I think the other thing too, we learned during the pandemic, but I held this before, which is approach this as a whole person. I can be as equally interested in someone's personal life and share my own as professional. And I think that makes all of us feel more genuine, authentic, and it helps to build those connections. So I am liable to. Yeah. Ask you about, your kid's ballet recital or the ski vacation you took or how the new house is going, all of that stuff. And I've had some of my most fun conversations with people in the network over that.

Dorothy Dowling:

Again very brilliant thought leadership that be extended. And I think more recently to an HBR article about executive. Career growth and how some like executive gravitas is something we've always spoken about, but just looking over the last few years versus what it used to be 10 or 15 years ago, that element of authenticity has Taken unprecedented levels in terms of importance and leadership. So I think the fact that you had it early and that you continue to develop that through, the pandemic and other things, Kelly, where I think it's become more evident to all of us. I think that really speaks to the kind of leader that you are. So thank you for sharing that.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Thanks, Dorothy. It's, I would love it. It's important to me to model it for the teams too. And so that's, they, we get a lot of jokes internally about, Kelly's icebreakers or whatever, but I do think, this, it you gotta get people relaxed and in the moment and learn that it's okay to be yourself and bring that into conversations. So it's, it is something I try to do for the sake of my team as well.

Dorothy Dowling:

Wonderful. Thank you. I'm wondering if you could expand on it a bit, because now as a consultant, obviously it's an important part of business development. So can you build some linkage in terms of how relationship investments really help you in terms of your consultancy practice?

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah, I, every time you get in this realm of business development, you always run the risk of some of this feeling a bit cynical or self serving. And I really, it is not for me. I've been fortunate now that I'm in this consultancy role that I can actually work with. The people that I've been building these relationships with for so long and help each other in a way that I couldn't when I was just a peer and we have a beer and complain about, X, Y, Z happening and what we could do to control it. But I think that authentic and approachable when I approach professional relationships in my consultancy helps helps me there as well. And just, I try to make sure that the leaders I know that I am genuinely interested in solving their burning business pains and I take, I'm taking it just as personally as they are. And this isn't about building a book of business, but really about contributing back to to industry and lifting their business and sort of the discipline as a whole. And that's helped. I don't, I don't treat these business relationships any differently. We, I learned about each other's personal lives. If we and as much as we get super passionate about what's happening in industry and how we can address it. So I think I bring the same, those same techniques into the business development cycle. They know they're getting me. They know they're getting my Yeah. The real me and, bringing my background to bear. And then, the teams that I build are committed to delivering excellent work for the clients as well. It's my, that's the interesting thing about consulting to Dorothy. Like when I approached this, I was most nervous about business development because I've never been like a used car salesman type, like calling people for, Encyclopedias or vacuum cleaners. But one of the things that's really interesting about consulting is you really are selling the people and people buy from people, so it is, and I can stand behind this product, like I know what this is and and what I can bring to bear and what and I know what what stands behind me at ZS that I can bring to bear on the problem and that makes it much more natural and it, and can build a genuine relationship to, to really to really push the business forward for our clients.

Dorothy Dowling:

Yeah. I think that's really well said. I do think that is the business of consulting, but certainly just your excellence in terms of your subject matter expertise. And I do think that humanity and just that commitment to service is something that really distinguishes yourself. So thank you for helping us shape how relationships really power business success. I'd like to talk a little bit about HSMAI because, of course, that's how you and I got connected and I think I shared with you, I don't know if it was last year or two years ago, I had the privilege of sitting in the audience at the sales conference. You were not there, but I know you had powered the lightning round that you referenced a few minutes ago. And I was. I was absolutely dazzled by the presenters that were on stage just in the way that they were able to bring such a relevant story in such a professional way to the audience. And there was a series of them, obviously, but several of the speakers spoke about you and how transformational you were in powering their communication skills. So I know I'm going a little bit off script here, but just your mentorship, your volunteer service with HSMAI. I would love to hear a little bit more about how you have really committed to volunteerism, your philosophy around it and how that has supported your career growth.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah. Thank you for that. For that nice compliment that was taken some great personal joy from coaching those lightning round presentations, communication, and presentation skills has been a big part of my career. I've worked on it. I have taken a lot of classes in it and I've honed my craft over time. And to your point, that is a good example of how I approach volunteerism. It, we only, we all only have so many, hours in a day. And and I, if we're going to give back, it, to me, it feels like I, you first of all, I have to have a passion for it. And then and I, I love what I do. So HSMAI and some of the stuff that I support through HSMAI as a natural fit. And for me also, it's what skills do I have that That could benefit others that have benefited me that are really, easy and top of mind for me to apply to that situation. Again, the tie into the lightning round in particular, because of all the background I, I have and that this that communication in and of itself and presentation is a personal need. value and passion of mine makes it really easy to give back. And as does, working side by side with all the amazing volunteers on all the initiatives we supported, whether it's the conferences or other educational opportunities. I saw your passion shine through at the commercial futures forum the other week, Dorothy. So I know you're relating to this. But, when I think about how that's benefited my career, and my career growth, the lightning rounds are a great example of this, I'm coaching here and I meet eight amazing industry folks that I build that I'm building a relationship with through through the engagement of working with them on this on and learning from them and And from their perspectives, as we construct these presentations together, and I get a lot of joy out of that. But I also make a bunch of friends do that. And I have a network that I can call on and I that I can learn from and that same goes for working side by side with, your peers, colleagues and the future leaders that we attracted. H. S. M. A. I. S. You volunteer. You are starting to become a part of that community and you folks you can learn from and you folks that you can call on. And that's always been a real support system for my career. So it's a very virtuous cycle to be involved in that organization in particular, but that's my, I have a hard time. Separating the personal and professional directly because I love what I do so much. I think the same would apply for folks who volunteer for causes they believe in and any other sort of aspect of their personal lives as well.

Dorothy Dowling:

Yeah. No, I agree. I think when you do have a passion and love and that mutuality that you talk about, no matter where people are in their career journey, the kind of learning that everyone affords each other, I think that truly is some of what. The richness of some of these opportunities that we have when we volunteer. I also would like to depart a little and talk about I had the privilege, as I said earlier, being in the room when you received the Vanguard award. I love that your mom and dad showed up to be part of that celebration of your career, Kelly. But I think that was a real testamote to what you have given to HSM AI, but also just the brilliance of your subject matter expertise because your brand and what you have brought in terms of thought leadership to the revenue management capabilities with HSM AI was really part of what was celebrated at that event. So I don't know if there's anything you'd like to expand on with getting the vanguard and what that meant to you in terms of your career journey.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

I'll tell you, I'm I remain speechless a little bit when it comes to this because it was such an honor. I think that recognition and, The Vanguard Award is for career achievement in, in revenue management. And the fact that I was recognized by an organization like HSMAI and by, by my peers was just very humbling. And it was just a huge honor. And just an achievement again I'm a little speechless about, and you can tell anyone who hasn't met me even by now. But it really was truly an honor and to be able to celebrate with the community and especially to have my parents there who've been such great supporters of me and have them I talk about what I do all the time. They don't get it all the time, but but they do they got to see sort of me in the community. And that was very special to me as well. So it was just a tremendous honor and really honor of a lifetime. I would I think so.

Dorothy Dowling:

If I may, I'd just like to thank you again for all of the great Thinking and practice development that you've really brought to the industry through your subject matter expertise. I love being in the room and hearing some of the personal elements of your story too. Kelly, cause I, I hadn't heard all of that before. So it was an honor for many of us to be in the room to celebrate this career achievement for you. So congratulations again.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Thank you.

Dorothy Dowling:

So I'm wondering if we can work on talk a little bit about work life balance. I, a consulting career I think is one of the more challenging career choices in terms of finding balance because you're serving multiple clients and often urgent things come up. And I know with your kind of service mindset, Kelly, you always want to do your best work for all of the people that you've invested time in developing and supporting in terms of relationships. So how do you employ? A healthy approach to finding some balance in your career.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah, this is an excellent question. I am not an expert at this by any means, but I think and a little bit of it is what I said before, which is just, I, I find it difficult. Because of the passion I have for this to separate the personal and professional, most of my friends are in the business. Like I am famous for hosting dinner parties where all we do is talk about revenue management. It's really fun for us. It may not be fun for everyone. I was trying to list the number of people that I was close to that didn't work in the hotel industry. And I think I use one hand, so it is very tight. And that is, I think, to be honest, that's. That's I think how I do maintain some of this balance because I just, I, my, my friends understand when I want to talk about work and they pull me out of it when we shouldn't. So that's a piece of it. But I do struggle because to your point, we always want to do our best work. We can always give a little bit more. I think for me, I just, I found a set of non negotiables that I hold onto that I know center me. And exercise and movement is one I'm a fanatic peloton rider. And so I, I'm on the bike most mornings or at least doing something that involves movement. My teams know I I'm an early riser, so it doesn't always have to be on the calendar, but they do know that if I'm, if the text message isn't spelled right, it's because I'm spinning away, trying to but and then trying to make sure that I'm always, taking care of myself in terms of eating right and getting sleep and those things, I think that allows me to at least approach intense work periods where I feel centered, where I feel healthier and I feel like I'm in a a decent mindset and I very visibly support the people on my team. I talk about that. I do this and I very visibly support the people on my team. If they if they want to and I just, I think that's crucially important. It's not a lot of time. It's an hour or two a day. It's maybe not even that, but at least I know I've got something, some routine that I know is good for me that I can just approach the day a little bit more centered on.

Dorothy Dowling:

I think having some of those non negotiables in terms of your wellness strategies is really empowering for all of us. Kelly, I have gone up and down in that, but I do think it is making sure They are non negotiable and that you recognize that when you engage in those who are so much more effective and you bring so much more value to everybody that you touch. So thank you for sharing it. And also that it's a continuous struggle. Cause I think for many of us, that is our truth. So I appreciate you sharing that. We're coming up near the end of our interview, Kelly, and we always ask every advisor that's part of our network that is there any final piece of advice that you would like to share with our audience that has empowered your personal success?

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Yeah, no, I thank you for this opportunity because I, as I was reflecting, thinking about our conversation on the mentors and the advice I've gotten in the past, one of my favorites. That I use most often one of my mentors said to me in giving advice about how to approach a situation, he said, Kelly, you need to run towards the roar and what he explained was the best way to scare off a lion is by running right at it and they don't expect it and yeah, I've never tested this with an actual lion. I'm just assuming this is true. But but I love that sort of mantra. It's what is the thing That's most frightening and the bravest act that you can take is heading right for that thing. And so every time I'm approaching a difficult conversation something I don't want to do or something that feels scary I always think to myself, okay, we're going to run towards the roar. And I just, even saying that to myself makes me feel more brave. It makes me feel more confident. And so I, that's my piece of advice is, and by the way, Never. I was never eaten by the lion. Anytime I ever ran towards the roar, right? I, but just that, so I would both encourage people to do that, right? Face the thing that, that scares you the most. Face it head on and face it now. Don't put it off. And secondly, I would encourage you to say that to yourself because it really does help.

Dorothy Dowling:

I love that mantra of run towards a war roar. It makes me think of some of the Amy Cuddy work that she did in terms of her power poses to put you into that superhero mindset. But I do think that is really brilliant advice to close out our interview with Kelly because I do think having courage and maybe having that ally that you had in the back of your mind is, really what is the downside? The worst is you're going to get some career advice or learning experience. And the upside is that you might be very successful as a result. So I just thank you, Kelly. It's, it was delightful to have you. On our show today, I love all the words of wisdom that you've shared with our audience. And again, I am just so grateful for all the continuing contributions that you make to our industry. So thank you for your leadership.

Dr. Kelly McGuire:

Thank you, Dorothy. This was a real pleasure. I enjoyed the conversation. It was a great opportunity for me. And so thanks again for having me.

Dorothy Dowling:

You're very welcome. So also I'd like to thank our audience and just remind everyone, if you've enjoyed this interview to please visit us on our website. It's personal stories. com where you will see webcasts and podcasts from other industry leaders like Kelly that will empower your knowledge and feel your spirit. We hope to see you there.