It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Artur Gerber, Managing Director, TUI Blue, interviewed by David Kong

• David Kong

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Artur shares the remarkable growth of TUI Blue Hotels & Resorts and factors contributing to his successful career. We discuss his approach to challenges and lessons from failures. He offers advice on networking and how he chooses leaders in a rapidly changing landscape. Artur also provides his advice on self-empowerment.

David Kong:

Greetings. I'm David Kong, the founder and principal of DEI Advisors. We are a nonprofit organization in Arizona, and today we are delighted to welcome Arthur Gerber, the managing director of TUI Blue. Arthur has been in industry for a long time. Industry icon, especially well known in Germany and Asia Pacific. It's great to have

Artur Gerber:

you, Arthur. Thank you, David. Thanks for the invitation. It's wonderful

David Kong:

to have you, Arthur. Now, many of us in the industry know TUI. It's a very famous travel company throughout the world, and some of us in the United States may know TUI Blue. So Arthur, to start off, would you mind to tell us a little bit about TUI Blue?

Artur Gerber:

Yes, my pleasure. I have to go a bit back explaining what TUI Blue is about. I started in TUI 2015 coming from different businesses. And then I got hired with the task to set up a new hotel brand to bring this into life in TUI. And the name of this hotel brand was chosen to be named TUI Blue. So at this point of time, it was a small people of a small group of people, five, six, seven, working already a couple of time to develop a new hotel concept, which then should be coming to life a year later. So we start to work. There was already a lot of things done, a lot of insights about customer behavior around the world, not only European customer behavior and demands, also Asian and Africa was playing a role. And then finally lucky to own a couple of hotels in Turkey, which is owned by the group. And we decided to do the launch of the brand in Turkey. It was the two, the existing two blues are gamma bark. We opened in May, 2016 and a couple of weeks later, the second one in Turkey, which is today named two blue pine garden. So it was a great thing to have the first two, two hotels coming into life. In 2016, and then we were quite lucky at this point of time. We were not lucky because there was again, a crisis in Turkey. So the business was really difficult from the very beginning. So we managed to make the launch quite nice. And the good thing was that from day number one, we received a high, very high guest satisfaction from our customers in the new brand. So this was something where we have been really lucky at this point of time to get this feedback from our customers. At the end, they have to decide where they go to. And on this base, we are lucky to build up the third hotel, the fourth, the fifth one. So we were really growing quite fast in the first two years. And then we managed now we have around 97 hotels in 20 country after eight years. So quite fast development and to do as a brand, which attracts. international clientele, international guests. We are very leisure focused, so we are really we say experts in leisure hotel business. So we offer a wide range of food and beverage local ingredients. We have a system, we call it our blue guide system, which means special trained stuff in each department of the hotel and taking care of the guests. This stuff is a bit more trained than the other stuff. They know a bit more about the region. They can recommend some excursions for the guests. They can recommend what's going on in the hotel. And then we have a very specialized fitness program. It's called blue fit. So we specialized trainers training with the guests. Some of these courses are free. Some of these courses are extra charge. Excursion is a big issue because we want that our guests discover the region. We do not even, if we offer all inclusive hotels here and there. We do not want that the guests stay purely in the hotel the whole day. We want them to go out to see more about the region, to meet people, to get in touch with the local culture. So this is in a nutshell what we do is about. And after running quite successful over the years, we decided then that was last year to expand our business. So we decided to establish a company in Dubai with business development people. So from there, we do now business development for Europe, Middle East and Africa. And on the same time, we established an office in Hong Kong and from Hong Kong, we do the business development for Asia and greater China. So these two teams are working together with the established teams, which you have all over Europe. They work together very closely to, to get new hotels in into our brand. So this is in a nutshell what two is about. And as you mentioned, we are owned a hundred percent by the two group, which is still one of the biggest leisure tourism, hotel group tourism groups in the world with airplanes and cruise ships, and more than one hotels and travel agencies. So a huge scale of things, which helps us to increase our business. And to develop further.

David Kong:

That's a wonderful story. A remarkable trajectory. Talking about remarkable trajectory, your career has taken a remarkable rise and you've done a lot of great things throughout your career. And I was wondering if you can share some of the highlights and also some of the lessons that you learned along the way.

Artur Gerber:

Yeah. First of all, if some of my people are listening also to our interview, they will start smiling because sometimes I repeat some of the sentences. I read them since 40 years because I'm in the industry now since more or less 35 years. First of all we work in a people business. And I really believe, especially in our industry, in the hotel sector, in the tourism sector if you decide to join this sector, I think it's great if you love to work with people and if you like people. Because otherwise it would be, I think, a bit difficult if you don't like people, if you have action with people every day. Is it colleagues? Is it guests? So it helps a lot if you really are passionate for people. Secondly I was lucky from the early years When I started my career to have, I would say two mentors from the very beginning for the first 10 years of my career, helping me a lot to grow up as a person and to grow up also with all the skills I learned in the hotel, because I started also from zero in the hotel business. And I was really lucky to have these people around me, helping me, supporting me. Both of them passed away already unluckily a couple of years ago. Great guys. And I really if I think about them from yeah I owe them these two guys a lot in, in, in my early career. Yeah. And then I was yeah. Doing my steps, working many departments. And then after seven, eight years, I really was lucky. to get the first apartment as general manager in a German group. It was a resort 700 beds, 140 rooms, apartments. So not too big, but also not too small. And you can imagine I was close to 29 years old. So it was really challenging. I did a system GM before and deputy general manager and department head. But if you then have the first job it's not that easy as it looks like if you are a deputy or assistant general manager, it always looks easier than if you have then the head on and be the guy who's leading the resort or the hotel at this time. That was a really nice experience. I will not miss it. And I was always lucky. To be surrounded by great teams love to work in the hotels where I was also working. And yeah, we still have a lot of contact to one of the former colleagues for all of this time. A remarkable time and I will not miss it. I will do the same if I start tomorrow again.

David Kong:

That's a wonderful story and you touched on a few things that are really important in our career. You had Two great mentors that took you under their wings and brought you along and gave you opportunities. The other one that you mentioned, which is really important is you surround surrounding yourself with wonderful teams. That's a secret to success. Let's talk about the challenges that you faced. Just curious as to what your general approach to challenges would

Artur Gerber:

be. Yeah. We have every day is a challenge in our industry. If you look let's say, especially in in, in our industry, not only the hotel sector, but also combining what TUI and the cruise ships in our remit, if you take the last 20 years, there was not one year running smoothly without any interruption. So if it is a a pest in Turkey or the island Vulcan was exploding and airlines were stopped to fly to, to us and these kinds of things. So there's a change, everything in here. I think we learned to deal with challenges. Yeah. Personally, I, as older I get, I think as, yeah, I would not say relaxed, but as more experienced you, you get as well dealing with these challenges. And this helps a lot then also the teams. Because usually you have teams through all ages and with all the degrees of experiences which is beneficial not only hearing the old guys talking about their challenges and experience but also younger colleagues with joining the team. I think I try always to. to see the issue, to understand the problem, and then sometimes you have to react quite fast because the problem is different. If it's just a sample, you have a huge fire in one of your resorts, so then you cannot analyze for weeks what's going on, what happens. What is the best solution if you have a fire in a fully booked hotel and then we have to evacuate this hotel During the night the local team has to do that Then you have to take from the company perspective. You have to take a decision on the next day What are we doing with the guests? How is the joint be approached? What are we going to do with our stuff? Yeah. Luckily, nobody is endured from guest side and from the employee side. Then you have to decide quite fast. Yeah. If you have, I think things which maybe need a longer time to come to conclusion which allows to have a longer time, I think then it's needed to do analysis more carefully. really carefully to see all the pros and cons before you come to a decision. I would say it's always a bit dependent on the issue and dependent on what you want to achieve and in which time frame. You have to achieve what, so this is what I see there. But this was always, I think more or less the case over the years, but then one thing happened, this was COVID. Then everybody was lost. Yeah. Because I still remember exactly what happened. I was on the last flight. I was in Vietnam and our resort. In March 20 20 and the resort was supposed to be open on the 1st of April. Then I was there for the last inspection talking to the colleagues and to our French to our joint venture partner. And then I flew on the 14th of March. I flew back via Bangkok, bang of Frankfurt. This was the last time for a couple of weeks from Bangkok to Frankfurt. It was a three ad, I never forget it. It was fully booked. And it was a really mysterious atmosphere in the plane. Nobody was knowing what COVID means. So it was really strange. And then I went back to our office, our head office of TUI in Hannover, Germany, on the 15th, I think it was a Monday. And then the board decided that we leave the office and close down the business. And then everybody went home. Luckily, we did the rollout of Teams 365 one year before. So everybody was at least able to communicate via Teams. But what I discovered in this time, the first week, where, you know that you have been in this period also, still active as a CEO of one of the biggest hotel groups in the world. There was no income stream from day number one. So from the 15th of March, at least in our remit, there was not even one Euro dollar cent revenue. So everything stops. The hotel we closed, we sent the people to furlough. We have to, we were forced to fire people. All the whole range. I think everybody was aware. That there have been solutions which we would not have taken in normal circumstances. But I think that for me, the most crucial thing was that usually colleagues and barriers are looking for the senior leaders to get an answer on something. But at least to my observation, the first. two, three, four weeks after the COVID came in around the world, nobody has said a different information than the other one. So everybody has said the same decree of information, which means there was no information. Nobody was clear what's going on. How do we handle it? How can we step forward? How do we pay all the things around us? So in this point of time, I think everybody was clear. You can have blueprints for everything. We have written handbooks for everything which can happen in the hotel or in our industry over the years. Everybody knows all the big books and the P& Ps. But for this particular thing, there was no PMP, that there was no plan to handle these kinds of things. In TUI, we have sure plans for all kinds of things you can imagine. A tech here and there, or there is a fire in a hotel, evacuation plans. So we are really good in, in these kinds of things which need to be handled for our customers when they stay with us around the world. But in this particular case, there was no plan B for the first week. So I think this was, for me, really a very strange experience. I guess like everybody else as well.

David Kong:

Yeah, that was very hard because there was no experience to draw upon and nobody knew how long it was going to last and the severity of things. That was very scary times, but kudos to you finding the strength and resilience and grace to lead. That was very hard.

Artur Gerber:

Like everybody else in this period, no income streams the two figures around 20 billion euro revenue per year. And from day one no, no single no. Send came in a huge cash flow. You can imagine we have 440 airplanes in hotels and these kinds of things, and at this point of time, more than 70, 000 employees worldwide in all the businesses, what we are doing. And so then you end up with not even one single Euro dollar income. So it was really great time, a hard time. And then it was really, I think, from a leadership perspective, it was needed to try to give guidance to your audience, to your people. And everybody was really desiring for guidance. What are we doing now? And then we were setting up a kind of, yeah, first we have daily talks and daily calls, I think from six in the morning till midnight, or even longer than midnight, before everybody was clear, other hotels closed. What are we doing with our people? So this was really a very tough time, I have to say. And as you say, David, to, to recover now as a, from a group perspective. Last year we have shown a profit in the company and our business year ends on the 30th of September. So we are already now in the new business year. So we are going to publish our year end result in the next weeks. And I think as our board already announced, there will be a remarkable profit which we're going to show. And yeah, this is, I think, great news for all our colleagues in TUI and also in TUI Blue that the company is back to old strengths. And we look pretty much forward to go the next steps.

David Kong:

I totally agree with you. And this reminds me of the saying this too will pass, meaning that even the worst challenge you can overcome, just give it a new day.

Artur Gerber:

It sounds strange, but it's like it is. And I think also one thing is you never give up.

David Kong:

That's true. this ties into my next question, what are some of the lessons that you've learned from your failures?

Artur Gerber:

There are many failures. If you take decisions you also take wrong decisions. I always try to first my classes. Half full and not half empty. That this is how I try to deal with my, also my private life. I'm optimistic thinking guy, because I say in our industry, it helps a lot if you're more optimistic than not even being aware that it's not a game, it's a tough business where we are in I always try to learn my lessons and to reflect afterwards. After a decision is proved to be wrong what was, what is wrong? How did we come to a wrong decision? What was wrong in the process? Didn't we have the right information? Didn't we have enough information? Have we been too fast? Coming to the conclusion. So I think for me, it's always important that to understand why the decision was wrong, proven wrong and not, because if you not understand, then you do another decision based on the same facts and you do the same. And therefore, sometimes I really I forced my people let's really see what was wrong and avoid that we do mistakes two times. And that we make mistakes. I encourage my people to take decisions. And if you encourage people to get, take decisions, you can be sure that they also wrong decisions. Yeah, but the worst thing is if we then do the same wrong decisions two, three or four times, and this I try to avoid. Sometimes it's okay and it works out and sometimes not. But I think it's human being or human nature that the people, they have to learn to decide and they have to learn that they, if they decide, it cannot be wrong. And I, I do this also with our young leaders. I encourage them to take decisions because they have to learn that not all the decisions they take are right. Yeah. But they have to decide if you, if nobody decides, how can you do your business?

David Kong:

That's right. You have to make decisions and sometimes you have to take risks and failure is not fatal. Failures are wonderful learning opportunities as long as we don't make the same mistake twice. Yes.

Artur Gerber:

And sometimes failure is a bit more painful than another time, I think there's one sample. It was a company many years ago. I was also in the top management and then it was a majority shareholder was close to 80 percent of the shares. And he wanted to do something totally different. And then, and we tried from a management perspective to convince him that his way is really wrong. And this will never work out. We tried to explain the business and what is our perspective on that? We showed plans forward, but it was impossible to convince him though. I was forced to leave the company because I was not able to work with this company further. And this was really disappointing because we invested a hell of work. In this company sure we get paid for it, but at the end it's also a personal investment You know what i'm talking about? And I think lots of people listening to the cast what it means when we talk about investing time and work in the sector But then the most disappointing part was for me, then seeing the stuff remaining in the company, not leaving. And then they were forced to work for a longer period. I still feel, and I didn't know in the retrospective, it was the wrong decision they took, but this was one of the samples where I said, listen, it was over months development. I didn't sleep well for a couple of months, bad feelings. Even, it was a company, Germany. So you're the MD obliged also to be responsible for the financial part of the company because you're registered in the in the government and reliable for these kinds of things. It was, this was. For me, one of the hardest periods in my lifetime, business wise. Yeah,

David Kong:

That's a tough one. I know in Germany, they have strict laws. You are responsible for your actions. Let's switch topics and talk about networking. Some people say your network is your net worth. It's vitally important. to your success. Tell us what tips you can share on networking. I

Artur Gerber:

mean, I can only say how I handle that. I think everybody I think is doing this in a different way. I still have people around me meeting at the first date of my business career. Sometimes we meet once a year, sometimes we don't meet. Sometimes we give us a call. And then over the years changing jobs and also countries, the number of people, is increasing. One of my things what is my, one of my takeaways is it's a give and take, right? It's not a one way. Means if you need something you can ask and if the other part is asking you for a favor, you say, I don't have time. We cannot this is, I believe strongly in this give and take. And then you are able to maintain your network because over the period, the people know exactly that you are predictable, that you're reliable. That you stand for what you say, and then your network is growing. This is at least how I do it. Sometimes it's not convenient if somebody's asking, Can you do me a favor here and there? To say, I don't have time for this now, I have other plans. But then you have fewer months to serve. It's worse. Because he has, he needs some help, otherwise he would not ask for a favor with me, which means the person who's asking needs something otherwise the question will not come up. And I think this is over the years. If you are comfortable with this kind of behavior, then you also make the people around you very sure that if they have something that they want to get from you, they get it. I think this is for me, at least for me, one of the most important things that you are reliable and that you stand for what you say. And this is how the network, for me, the base of the network around the world, if you stay true to this kind of let's say values, maybe personal values. And therefore, everybody's treating this different, at least this is how I treat it. That's wise.

David Kong:

You are absolutely right. There needs to be reciprocity in the relationship to your point about give and take. I see that we are coming to the end of our time. I have a couple more questions that I'd like to ask you. One is about the environment that we all work in, which is a very fast paced, fast changing environment. Moving and what leadership traits do you look for in this kind of environment when you hire people for high level positions?

Artur Gerber:

I would say they have to be passionate for what they're doing. They have to be, they have to have a clear understanding about how they lead people and how the leadership is about. Not, if you are, if you hire some experienced senior leaders. You don't look too deep in what they did in year two of their career in terms of the job they are doing. I have always really a big eye on the behavior of the people. What do they believe and how do they interact with people? And we want to make sure that we have really leaders. Which are able to deal with the whole scope of our work. Yeah. ESG, DEI is an issue. How do they fit to the needs of the company? Also the values of TUI trust, unique and inspiring. How do they see the world? Yeah. How do they see the world today and how do they see the world and our environment in the next two, three, four, five years? I do not ask for 20 years. It's far too long, but at least they have to have an idea. Over the next two, three years, there's something, what we have to predict is there's something what we have to consider. So let's say that the whole picture. Which, from my perspective, a senior leader should have this plays a role in our decision, at least my decision, before we sign some contracts with some senior leaders in our company.

David Kong:

Great. Thanks for sharing that. My last question is regarding self empowerment. It is so important that we don't shortchange ourselves and do our best to achieve our career aspiration. That requires us to have self empowerment. Can you share your advice on personal empowerment? A

Artur Gerber:

very good question, David. It's the million dollar question. I believe that you have to be self confident that you have to believe what you do, but on the same time, you have also to be sure that you're not alone on the world. So even If people intend to think, okay, it's my decision now and it's the way I go, which is quite nice to have an idea and also the way forward, the direction forward. But you never do this alone. And I think it's always wise to see what's going on the right side, left side. And if I go, if I'm out of Germany, I'm a foreigner. independently to which country you go. And I think this is also do something with personal empowerment to to be clear that you have to adapt yourself to the environment you are in. Yeah, and yeah, be confident what you do, but not believe that you are alone in the world and you rule everything by yourself.

David Kong:

Wonderful advice. You basically talked about the need to have self confidence and vision, but you need to bring others along because nobody can achieve everything himself or herself. You need other people to prop you up and support you. Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom with us, Arthur. It's great having you on the show.

Artur Gerber:

My pleasure. Thanks for the invitation. Yeah, that's

David Kong:

wonderful. And to the audience, if you enjoyed the show, I hope you'll join us on our website, DEIAdvisors. org. We hope to see you there. Thanks again, Arthur. It's wonderful to have

Artur Gerber:

you. Thank you very much, David. Thanks for the invitation and hope to see you soon in Asia or somewhere else in the world.

David Kong:

Thank you.