It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Dr. Richie Karaburun, NYU, Associate Professor & Director, Tisch Center, Hospitality HI HUB Incubator Program Interviewed by Dorothy Dowling

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From his rapid rise through the ranks of intermediary companies to his current role as NYU Associate Professor & Director, NYU Tisch Center of Hospitality HIU HUB Incubator Program Richie Karaburun has always remained curious, open to learning from others and a strong believer in “things happen for a good reason”. 

 

Dorothy Dowling:

Hello, I am Dorothy Downing, a principal of DEI Advisors. We are a not for profit organization dedicated to personal empowerment. I am delighted to welcome Dr. Ritchie Karaburan from NYU University and NYU Jonathan M. Tish Center of Hospitality, and also the director of the Tish Center of Hospitality Innovation. Richie, welcome. It is truly an honor to have you with us

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

today. Thank you so much for having me, Dorothy.

Dorothy Dowling:

Richie, the question we always like to start out with all of our guest advisors is to have them share their career journey with us. So I'm hopeful that you can talk about your journey from a very early stage. I know you had very young promotions with some of the early positions that you had. A lot of it was in the intermediary business, connecting dots between suppliers and buyers. And now, of course, you, you have entered the world of academia. So I'm hoping you can share with us that journey, um, so that we can all learn more about you.

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

Excellent. Thank you very much. So, um, so glad to be connected with you again. So that's the beauty of our industry. So, um, Richie Karaburan originally from Turkey. So I was actually born and raised in Turkey. I went to undergrad in international relations in Turkey. So after college, I was looking for jobs. in Turkey. And a friend of mine said, why don't you apply for a tour operator company called ATI? They are looking for an intern. And I said, my God, they, would they hire me? And then I send the letters, uh, applied in 1994, January. So I started as an intern. At ATI American Tourism International in Los Angeles, California, that was supposed to be nine months ordeal. I even told my mom that it was going to be nine months and then I'll be back and possibly work for, you know, Turkish tour operator or intermediary. So after 12 years, um, and I, you know, I was the vice president of marketing and product development at ATI. I started at the age of 23. three. Um, so basically as a trainee, nine months ordeal became 18 months and 18 months became three years. So with all these different type of visas, J ones and H ones. And so I am very appreciative of what ATI offered me and I, what I gave it to them. And while I was there, From an intern, I became, um, assistant product manager, then product manager, then senior product manager, and then, uh, director of product development. And eventually vice president of product development. That's basically reporting to the owner and CEOs of the company. And in the meantime, I've also completed my MBA, uh, in international marketing and Chapman University in Los Angeles while working there. So I, you know, this is where we, I met and I created my network, majority of my, uh, network while I was at ATI. Um, it was great. I was very happy, 12 years. And, uh, later I met with my wife. uh, in Turkey in a blind date. So I tell everyone go to blind age. Don't be afraid. Uh, you never know that might change your life. And that was actually one of the life changing moments. So, and then she came to America and she's a physical, uh, physician, uh, surgical pathologist, and she got into a residency program in New Jersey. So I actually transferred via ATI to New York. Um, and to be actually be with her. And then about six months later, um, I was approached again, part of my networking launches, but we can talk about the importance of networking launches and catching up that I heard a company called GTA Gulliver's travel. Now it's a hotel bets company, uh, looking for a president, um, of, um, uh, of North America division, which basically competing with, um, all other intermediaries. Um, and I started as the president, uh, stay there seven years, then that company was sold to corny, different types of managements and everything. Again, uh, I always say people don't quit companies, people quit people. Um, and then I decided to look for different things and I actually, and again, during one of my lunches with one of my old CEO, Ken Astro, uh, who is now in the venture capital business. Um, they basically, um, they said, okay, there's an opening and radius travel in corporate travels. Um, uh, between that, I actually interviewed with Marriott Corporation and I didn't get the job. I was actually looking for a VP of intermediaries position. And when I didn't get the job, I called the person, um, he was now retired at Marriott, David Townsend. And then, um, And he, and I said, why didn't I get the job? They said, well, you're too much of a leisure travel guy. And we were looking for a corporate travel experience because corporate travel is important for Marriott corporation. And we didn't see that in you. I'm like, what the hell is corporate travel? I mean, I didn't even know I was boxed into a leisure guy, leisure travel guy. So. I got the opportunity, um, uh, to be a vice president of product development and contracting for radius travel was a corporate travel. I did not like corporate travel end of it. So that was a very short stint, almost two years. And we were supposed to be moving to Bethesda, Maryland, where their headquarter was and my wife later didn't want to move there, wanted to stay in New Jersey, uh, got the dream job after all of her, uh, residencies and fellowship. So basically I left. And again, through, uh, interview, um, uh, informational interviews and they said, well, there are two Israeli guys that are actually looking for a managing director, uh, an entrepreneur. So I was approached by rumor travel. That was kind of a stop hop for travel. I have never done an entrepreneurship, uh, business or, or created a company before. And um, the investors there are very strong from Israel. And so I, I joined them. I was the employee number five or six. And I think I was the employee number one in North America. Um, so four years at Drumeau travel, um, basically. And then throughout that, you know, a lot of travel, lots of hard work. I mean, I thought I got my second MBA there. Uh, really, that was actually good. And then I started teaching at NYU as a part time. Um, uh, it was first as a guest lecturer. So be careful when you come to next, uh, that can come to your blood, uh, and the teaching. And, uh, so I decided to teach as an adjunct part time. And, uh, later on is a full time opening, full time professor, uh, uh, position at hospitality, uh, division. And I basically, they said, well, but you have to be in the PhD program. I'm like, there's no way I'm not getting a PhD program. I'm almost 45 at that time. You know, PhD is inexpensive, four and a half years. And. I found myself in the PhD program, loving it, intellectually challenged, felt stupid sometimes, but no pain, no gain is my, uh, one of my mantra. And I said, I could do that. And, uh, so throughout, I actually, uh, earned my doctorate degree in marketing and, um, uh, predominantly consumer behavior and, uh, started, uh, and now almost. 10 years at NYU, loving every moment of it. And, uh, and basically about two years ago, I became a director of Innovation Center. Um, now I lead in incubator program and we can talk about this later if you like. And, uh, so, uh, in addition to my full time teaching job, I have. that role, as well as I advise many students on their career journey. And, um, so I feel like I'm able to touch their lives, which is actually, uh, one of the things that I want to do for the rest of my life. So married with two kids, uh, live in New Jersey, commuting to New York. Thank God it's not five days. Um, uh, so doing research, doing research with industry partners like Expedia and Hyatt corporations. And we've just finished the executive education on, uh, with Hyatt, uh, corporations on digital transformation for their sales team. And so Really at NYU I would like to get also more involved with the industry as well as academia. So I want to be the bridge between hospitality, um, uh, practitioners and hospitality, uh, professors. So, um, I think that's my journey. It's, um, the next year it'll be 30 years in America. So it was supposed to be nine months journey, 30 years, still strong. And, uh, uh. That's it, I guess.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, thank you, uh, for sharing that with us, Richie, and I'm sure you just offer so much to students based on just the depth and breadth of your career journey. You, you have so many, uh, experiences to share in, in many different parts of the category. So, Um, they're very fortunate to have you and thank you for sharing that journey. You know, where to you've always shared a few things. I mean, you shared the no pain, no gain, um, story, but I'm just wondering if you have a personal mantra or mission that really has a business, you took a big risk. Emigrating to America and, you know, starting your restarting your life and making those kinds of commitments. But as you have worked through your career and then empowered partners and teammates, now, of course, all your students, are there some things that really just are guiding forces in terms of how you think about life and business? Yeah,

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

you know, my mother raised me in a way always. I heard from her many, many times, thousands of times. Everything happens for a good reason. In America, they say everything happens for a reason. I don't believe it. I believe That everything happens for a good reason. So sometimes those things happens to you that maybe at that time I'm, Oh my God, it was the worst thing happened to me. You could lose your job, your title, or you lost a contract or you lost a customer or, you know, anything throughout that we all experienced that. And then we were like, Oh my God, sky's falling a thing. But my mantra was like, you know, everything happens for a good reason. We don't know the reasons, good reasons yet, maybe sometimes in five years, 10 years down the road that we said, Oh my God, it was actually one of the best reasons, uh, that, that, that happened to me. And so that just really the case, right? So the other one is, um, uh, no pain, no gain. It just really sometimes it is going to be, uh, very painful, uh, but, you know, it just in order to grow, sometimes it's going to be painful. So, um, no fear, no fear, uh, take the risk, because if you can't take the risk, you can't grow, uh, really for this. I've done it as you said it myself, I tell all my customers, all my friends, all my students. But I think the first thing came to my mind is everything happens for a good reason, so believe in it. I believe in it. If something happens to me, good, bad and ugly, sometimes, that's life. Um, I believe that it, everything, you know, happens for a good reason. Well,

Dorothy Dowling:

So, so Richie, um, I'm wondering if we can go back and explore your career journey in a little more depth because, uh, you achieve very senior executive roles very early in your career. And I know you were a vice president at ATI, and then I believe you've got the CEO at GTA in your very early thirties. So I'm wondering if you can share with the audience of some of the learnings that you had about being a young senior executive and having, you know, older teammates and very high expectations from investors and how you bridged a lot of those expectations. Yeah.

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

You know, now looking back, um, one thing is that nobody knows what they are doing until they do it. Right. So it's just really, I remember first time and I became the president of a GTA, almost 200 employees. I'm like, Oh my God, I was at the age of 32. I had many older senior employees and same thing with an ATI. I was even in my late. twenties. It just looking at it. Oh, my God. And so no fear again. Nobody knows what they're doing until they do it. So you have to do your best. One of the things that I would actually give all the young leaders respect the wisdom. Respect the wisdom and experience, right? So, um, definitely that is one thing, uh, that, you know, because we all, uh, have, um, senior employees under us as a young leaders. So that's really one thing, try to learn from everyone. Um, and I'm still learning. So I'm now learning from our students who are like very young millennials. So learning from everyone. Respecting wisdom, um, and the experience and the more importantly, as, as a leader, know the power of your words, you know, the, the leader's words are very, very powerful. So, uh, definitely, uh, that's, uh, the case and this simple rule. I always now, uh, say, um, that, you know, anybody who went to kindergarten in the United States, they learn that as a golden rule. Right. The golden rule is treat people as you want to be treated. I think once you have those base, um, um, that you're on the good way. So I learned those sometimes in a hard way. Oh, the other one is really I learned as a young leader, uh, is that you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. So, uh, you have to choose. You have 50 percent of the chance. And I use those lessons to my, uh, with my students right now. It's just really you have to look at it in yourself sometimes that, you know, you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. So you choose which part you want to be actually be. Um, so I think those are some of the lessons that I would share with young leaders. Uh, more importantly, respect the elderly, respect the wisdom and experience. And 30 years, you have a lot more than, uh, I do. Um, young leaders have to learn how to respect that wisdom, uh, that they have under them.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, and you know, in this particular time that we're in, uh, Richie was so many baby boomers staying in the workforce for a number of reasons. That having four generations in the workforce, I think for everyone to learn about that ability to collaborate and to really learn from our peers and to respect their voices, that really is the fundamentals of. It's really understanding that sense of everyone contributes, and we need to respect their voices as we can all learn from each other. So thank you for sharing that. I wonder if we could pivot a little bit because I know you've taken on this role of the incubation hub at the school, and I'm wondering if you can share a little bit about what the goal of the Innovation Center is, and how does this support industry as well as your students?

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

Yeah, and we've started about two years ago, uh, with a big gift from one of our donor. Um, uh, that we actually created that, um, a hospitality innovation high hub and I run the incubator end of it. So we, I always, uh, say we make, um, our students dream come true. And many of them, they come with dreams of having their own businesses, either their own restaurants or, uh, own hotels, uh, Or they are family or legacy entrepreneurs that they want to grow the business, um, of their family businesses. And so our main goal is to really help them, uh, guide them, uh, towards their startup companies, um, or established companies. or any ideas, any kind of entrepreneurial ideas. So we do, um, we establish a great mentors and investors club from an industry. Many of them, I am proud to save my, um, friends and colleagues from the industry. So they are now giving in. Um, um, so we have cohorts, uh, so far we have about fifth cohorts. Uh, now six cohort is coming up, uh, that they are applying and our mentors and investors club members they are choosing. We select. five companies, five teams, uh, each cohort. And then, um, uh, about, uh, every week they are actually meeting with their, uh, mentors and investors at the end, similar to Shark Tank. So they actually, um, uh, present their opinions. And we now this year we are giving 20, 000 a word, um, to the winners, uh, as well as we are introducing them, um, with their, um, with. Uh, our investors and we've also just created a fund called KISS fund. Keep it simple security funds where we can actually invest in and to our students ideas with our investment investment club. So it just really, um, uh, one way. To, to promote entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial, uh, spirits of our students and making their dream come true. And so their ideas are helping the industry because many of them are hospitality related, whether it's an online, uh, booking systems or, Um, a decentralized marketplace where, uh, the influencers and the restaurant owners can meet, uh, whether it's a specialty drinks, whether it's like Uber of housekeepers and, uh, housekeeping department. So there are different ideas, uh, for both, uh, hospitality and meeting planning where they can actually, um, uh, submit their ideas to the hospitality industry, um, uh, professionals as well.

Dorothy Dowling:

That's so powerful, um, Richie, to create that center of innovation where again, students can be mentors to establish businesses and establish leaders, but also just to power that entrepreneurial spirit that is so critical in the industry today. So thank you for sharing that. I'm wondering if, if we can talk a little bit about. Just see the demands of being a leader in the hospitality industry. Most of us have had lots of up and downs in terms of the economic cycles and certainly most recently with the pandemic. And I'm just wondering, as you have navigated all of those challenging times through your career, again, if there's any words of wisdom that you would like to share with our audience.

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

Yeah, you're right. We've seen it. I mean, one of the first, uh, the biggest thing I've seen is 9 11. Um, I was at A. T. I. And I remember that clearly, clearly that day and, and many, many days after that, how we could actually survive. Um, and the pandemic as well after. Um, uh, but really 9 11 was the biggest hit for me in terms of both professional and personal level. Yeah. Um, uh, now looking back and pandemic also was, um, but I was in, uh, you know, academia and I was still doing the, you know, um, uh, the online classes and everything. One thing that is the communication, right? So we actually learned the leaders as well as everyone has to be open and honest communication, uh, throughout, because we all know, uh, hospitality business is one of the greatest businesses in the world, but it's a cyclical business. And it's unfortunately it's impacted tremendously now is the, you know, uh, hurricanes and then, uh, wildfires in Maui and, um, uh, if not the pandemic, if not the terrorist attack. So it is very, very sensitive, but it's very resilient. And one thing that we basically, this cyclical, we're all back after 9 11. They said, Oh my God, New York is gone and New York is back. Same thing with pandemic. Now, um, you know, uh, we are, we are back. So you basically have to be, um, optimistic and, and knowing that the industries like hospitality, um, industries are very resilient. It's going to come back no matter what it might take one year, two years, three years. But now we're, you know, looking at the numbers in 2025, we're going to be back to 2019 numbers. So it's really open communication, being honest and being positive, really, rather than, uh, you know, Oh my God, again, sky's falling. And it just, um, uh, being positive and be open with. Everyone, your partners, your employees, in this case, also in the students. And I like that mentality called we're in this together mentality. So I remember 9 11, I was calling the hotels. I'm like, look, what can we do together? Because we're in this together. And now I'm thinking of this, that notion of we're in this together. You're not alone. We're not alone. So, uh, even we are suffering together and how can we end, uh, this together? So that togetherness, uh, mentality really has to kick in and, uh, uh, together, uh, I always say together we are stronger. I know that was Hillary Clinton's campaign, uh, mantra, but stronger together. That's, that's what I always say.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, and I also believe in that, um, framework too, Richie, and I do think that 9 11 and the pandemic most recently taught all of us that the richness of that collaboration, it not only spurs innovation, but I think it really supports all of us both personally and professionally in terms of, again, the learning journeys that we have with each other. And what we can find together to solve problems. So, um, I truly appreciate that. And I think your story on the resiliency, it is one of the components of being a leader in the hospitality industry is that you do have to have that strength of being able to navigate the ups and the downs and being resilient through all of that change. So thank you. Richie, I'm just wondering, I know a while ago you told me a very interesting story with your students in terms of helping them truly understand the investment that they and potentially their families were making in their education, how to quantify that, and to really understand the importance of showing up in class because you went through a whole metric on what each of those class hours cost. So I'm just wondering if you mind sharing that story with with the with our audience today and also any parallels that you see more broadly in as one starts to quantify the investments they make in their career growth.

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

Yeah, and one day I've noticed generally I have full classes and one day I noticed there was about. Four, five students, uh, were missing. They either, you know, call them sick or they said they're not going to be able to make the class. And, and I came to the class and I, you know, I said, what is this? What's going on? And, well, such and such a sick, it's a headache and something else came up and, and I asked the students, I said, do you know how much are you paying for this class? They all told me. They are paying about 75, 000, 80, 000 for tuition for NYU in this case. I said, no, I didn't ask that because that's an entire year and I asked for this specific class. They didn't know. And I said, you know, wow. So obviously most of the parents are paying. And I said, okay, let's do the math exercise. So, uh, my classes are three credit classes and three credit undergrad class costs about 6, 000. And every semester we have 14 weeks. I tell them this, I said, now. Every two and a half hour class, the one that you're missing, how much does it cost? And then of course, when they did this divided 6, 000 divided by 14 weeks, and that's actually close to 428. So I said, next time, when you actually decide not to come to the class, I want you to call your parents or email them. Just tell them you're actually throwing away. They're almost there. 500. Um, would you do that for Taylor Swift concerts? No, no, definitely not. I said, why would you do that for NYU or for any of the classes? So, um, that just was really, um, uh, the case. And, um, so, uh, to basically the lesson, uh, there is time is money, time is money. And, and that's what I used to also, uh, do when we were in the big, uh, important meetings, all the VPs and presidents and the directors. And I used to ask, do you know how much? Uh, this meeting close to the company. So, you know, let's actually stop kidding around and now let's get some action items. So it's just really the cost of gathering, uh, people. And then also time is money. So with that, I, uh, you know, we do a little exercise and I tell them they're leaders that they admire a lot, mosque, Mark Zuckerberg, and, you know, and them, their fathers, mothers, and me, we all have one thing in common. And then we actually spend about five minutes. They all are. We all have brains. We have all ambitions. We are all human beings. I said, no, we all have 24 hours in a day and it is all up to us how we use 24 hours. We can binge watch in Netflix or we can read a book or we can, um, you know, so it just really the moral of. that. And then they later, they were, Oh my God, we've never even thought about this way. So when you switch that time and money approach, um, that is just really, um, uh, the case. And, uh, now my absence is I'm proud to say it's almost non existence. Everybody's coming in and it worked. Uh, and I'm happy. I'm proud of them so that they realize that they said, you know, we've never even thought about this time as money. And every class costs 500 and that really switched their mentality. Um, and they think twice, uh, before they miss the class.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, and I thank you for sharing that story, and I thank you for also connecting the dots in terms of the application, the industry space, Richie, because I do think sometimes we lose track of really the cost of, of actually not investing our time wisely. So I do think it's a, it's a, it's a path of intentionality. It's making those very, Uh, intentional choices about how we want to spend our time and making sure we understand the trade offs in terms of when we choose to do something different. But I thank you for that. I am. I am certain that's a lesson that will be retold by many of your students for years to come. There's another expression that I really love that you shared with me. I think it might have been at focus right last year because I've always had this personal mantra about relationships are the currency of life. But quite frankly, when I spoke with you, Richie, I loved how you framed it up because you said your network is your net worth. And I'm just wondering if you'd care to elaborate a little bit on that mantra.

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

That actually to me is the biggest. I mean, even I should have maybe said that in the beginning. It's your network is your net worth. Um, it's, you are as strong as people, you know, and look at you and I is a prime example. We met almost 30 years ago. We're stronger in every aspects of our lives. We are together. We support each other. And imagine that times 10, 000. So, in fact, one of my research on, during my doctoral program was about social capital. And so I studied social capital a lot, you know, like, and I think everybody asks, is this social capital is your network that the people, you know, the places you go, it's basically people, you know, and I always say like social capital is. Like money in your bank account, uh, and sometimes a lot more important, uh, than that. And so when I look back in my career, even starting at NYU, even starting at GTA and any other, and, um, you know, it just, it's all about network. I have never looked for a job. I tell my students, the jobs came to me to, through my network and Lisa Cully. My goodness, Lisa Kelly from Best Western was the one. Hey, do you know this company called GTA? They are looking for a president. You would be fantastic. Why don't you just let me get the right person? I remember that. That was Ken Astro, uh, looking at the rumor, uh, aspect. So everybody in, in that case, and really, and in fact, I tell the students, your network is your network. So while you're in New York, we, in fact, have a little competition in each class. In the first class, I ask everyone how many connections they have in their LinkedIn profile. And and then after the semester, 14 weeks later, what's the percentage of increase? And then the winner gets a little prize, like an extra credit, not extra credit, but you know, get some acknowledgments. So and they realize that as well. And then now. Uh, when you develop that not only, you know, you can help yourself personally or professionally, but more importantly now for me I can help my students. So now when there's an internship opportunities when there's an open, uh, You know entry level jobs or even senior level jobs, and then I actually keep on forwarding um, all those among my students and Uh, that just really the case. And I think people underestimate that. And to me, it's a big thing. And thank God, thank God we have LinkedIn now. So we don't have these Rolodexes we used to have in the cards. Uh, my students wouldn't know that. Um, but then now with LinkedIn, um, we can actually keep that and also cultivate that. That's what even during, um, uh, during a pandemic. online connectedness. That's what we learned. We don't have to be physically together. Uh, it's better, but we can actually, uh, still keep our connections online, uh, throughout our lives. And that's the beauty of it.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, thank you for elaborating on that so brilliantly, Richie, because I truly. Do believe it ties back to your other mantra of doing it together. I do think that we all enrich each other's lives. We provide great peer mentorship to each other when we're facing areas where we may not have confronted them before, but also it is about us continuing to curate and support each other in their career development. So, so well said. So thank you for sharing. I'm wondering if I could pivot a little bit because you and your wife have had Very high powered careers. You have a family, um, and you've had to make a lot of choices in terms of where you live. And one of the conversations that is part of our industry because of the travel demands that, um, is part of most of our lives is really how we approach work life balance. So I'm just wondering, how did you balance and how do you balance your schedule, um, as a husband and a partner to your wife. And then of course, as a parent to your children.

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

Yeah, it wasn't easy. I mean, when, uh, anyone mentioned it was not easy at all. And, uh, especially when the kids are young and we needed childcare, I used to travel 80%. She was doing her residency and she was working 90 hours a week. during her medical residencies and two kids and all the responsibilities. And even we've actually talked a lot about this in our last vacation last week and, um, wow, we did it. Um, how did we do that? We've actually, when we discuss is respect, respect to each other's career. And both of us sometimes, uh, you know, I had to take it back and then sometimes, you know, she had to, but really more than love. I mean, we truly love each other, but respect to, I respect her job tremendously in our schedule. And then so, so does she. And, um, so this is really, uh, important and, uh, get extra help. I mean, we were fortunate. We had au pairs, um, as well, and we were working, but at the end, um. Uh, the kids I think, became a lot more resilient when they see mom and dad, dad are working very hard to make the best living for themselves, for us, as well as for the kids. And they were proud and they are. Now, I can totally see my kids. They're proud of what Mother accomplished and, uh, what, uh, fogger accomplished and yes, now we can take it a bit easier because we are in the point that we didn't have to. We don't have to travel that much, or we can choose the work. We don't have to, you know, uh, move a lot, which we moved a lot from New York to, um, from Los Angeles to, um, uh, you know, New Jersey, then Connecticut back to New Jersey with all of her work. Be flexible. And I think if you have the end goal, I always say, you know, those are kind of obstacles. And then I think you have to see the targets and many people just. Focus on the obstacles and the target gets blurry and we had the target. We all, this is where I want to see myself. And I think Picasso said, if you can imagine, it's real. I love that. And, uh, and then she's so, uh, when she becomes a pathologist is a very work family. The life balance is good. And now where we are, the kids are grown and the college and the high school, but. It was not easy, but it's doable. Again, flexibility. And, and again, we are in this together, but my wife and I look, you know, we are in this together. We are family and we don't have any families here, uh, basically. And I think if you stick together and respect each other, uh, everything is possible.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, and I, I thank you for sharing that. Cause I do think the spirit of partnership and how you approach these, um, Opportunities and challenges really does speak to the foundational relationship that you have as a partner. So, so thank you for sharing that with us, Richie. So we're coming up near the end of the interview, and we always ask every advisor, is there any last words, thoughts that we didn't cover that you would like to share with our audience in terms of wisdom?

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

Yeah, I have to tell everyone my favorite quotes. Albert Einstein said, by the time you stop learning, you start dying. And that is my new motto. And it's been my motto, but now it's just constant reading, constant updating myself now with artificial intelligence. Um, just. Don't ever stop learning. Always learn, always be intellectually curious, and I think as leaders in the industry and either in academia or, uh, in, uh, the practitioner world, and that should be our thing, because if we are up to date, if we are actually learning, then we can give back, uh, to the next generations as well, and everybody should do that, and I really tell everyone, by the time you stop, uh, learning, you start dying, so never ever. Stop learning would be my last word, I guess.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, and thank you for again articulating that so well, Richie. I know I love that expression of CQ with CQ being the curiosity quotient that it is an important part of us having that growth mindset and continuing to embrace change and learning and opportunities for ourselves. So thank you for for sharing that with our with our audience and Thank you so much. If I may also just thank you today for taking the time to share so much of your journey, your wisdom with our audience, and also, um, provide us with so many different things to think about in terms of our own personal growth. And if I could also thank the audience that has joined us today, because if you have enjoyed this interview, I hope you'll visit our website, DEIadvisors. org, where you'll see webcasts and podcasts from other thought leaders like Uh, Richie and, uh, the, these individuals, all of them have wonderful ideas to share that empower our knowledge and fuel our spirit. So again, Richie, thank you. It's always an honor to be in your

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

presence. It's been a pleasure.

Dorothy Dowling:

Yeah. And to our audience, I hope we get to see you again on our website. So thank you very much.

Dr. Richie Karaburun:

Thank you very much. Have a great day.