It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Louis Zameryka, CoFounder & Chief Commerical Officer, Alively, interviewed by Dorothy Dowling

• David Kong

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Influenced at an early age by his experience at the family annual vacation spot in the Poconos, Lou knew he wanted to be part of the travel and hospitality industry. Taking a different path than his peers, he chose to enroll in a hospitality school at the local community college and worked at the local Holiday Inn. His early experience set him up to be on the ground floor of
 the development and growth of Booking.com in North America. Always willing to take on a challenge and embrace the chaos that comes with building something from nothing, he was able to successfully grow in his role and become a very influential business leader. He learned the importance of carefully listening and ensuring he fully understood the intended messages
 he and others were communicating to truly bridge understanding.

Dorothy Dowling:

Greetings. I am Dorothy Dowling, a principal of D e I advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to personal empowerment. I am delighted to welcome Lou er, former director of Global accounts for North america@booking.com. Lou, welcome to our show. It is such an honor to have you with us today.

Louis Zameryka:

Thank you for having me, Dorothy. I'm really grateful for the opportunity to be here.

Dorothy Dowling:

Wonderful. Well, how about we get started? Um, Lou, I think you know how much I admire you, and you have just had this amazing career journey@booking.com. You know, I think back of 17 years ago, you were charged with building the booking.com branded, uh, sorry, booking dot com's brand in North America with global partners, and you were. Quite often the youngest person, the youngest hospitality leader in the room, and always meeting with very senior distribution of marketing executives. And you've just had amazing success in building relationships, earning the respect of senior leaders, and building a tremendous sales network for booking. So I'm hoping you'll share some of your secrets to your success and, and, uh, help our audience in terms of how they might learn from

Louis Zameryka:

you. Sure I would be happy to. Uh, and it's been quite a learning journey for me, so I'm happy to share it. Uh, it's a journey I'm still on, of course. And it's definitely been, uh, not so traditional. Um, so maybe I'll, I'll start at a little bit of the beginning. Um, I was, I was fortunate that at an early age I knew I wanted to get into travel and hospitality, and as I thought about it, then when I was like 12 years old, I thought about it as I gotta get into the vacation industry. Um, and that really comes because when I was younger, um, it's not that we traveled a lot, but we always went on vacations and living in New York, one of the popular places to go on vacation was the Poconos. And as a kid I went to a place twice a year, so every summer in winter called Woodlock Pines. And many of the viewers may know it, but it's one of the greatest resorts in America. I think just even last week, uh, Forbes did a piece on the founder and c e o, and it's an exceptional place. Everything you could want in a hospitality experience existed there. So much so that when our parents would ask us, where do you want to go this year? It was always Woodlock Pines in the summer and in the winter. Um, and when I saw how people experienced that and how much value people put on that break they got, and that together time they got, and what the staff did and how memorable those people were, uh, I knew this vacation industry was something I wanted to be a part of to make that kind of impact. And to be around people when they're in that moment of travel, right? Everybody puts a lot of hopes and dreams, whether it's leisure travel or business travel. You travel for a reason and it means something to you. You don't just accidentally end up on a trip. Um, and I wanted to be part of that, so I knew at an early age that this would be my industry. Which is really helpful, right? It's, it's uncommon that you can go at a very clear goal from a young age in terms of where you wanna be from a career, and it really did allow me to maybe cut to the chase a bit more than if I was still kind of thinking and searching about what I would eventually do. Which as you alluded to, allowed me at a young age to just be, be present and rolling up my sleeves, doing much more because I had this intense focus that I knew I was in the right place and I understood my goals. Um, so now I did take a brief detour, right? I went to a private all boys school where mostly in high school you went, uh, afterwards to become a lawyer or a doctor or something in finance. And I did study international finance my first year of college, um, mainly international'cause I wanted to travel. I quickly realized that, you know, I really need to get into travel. And again, I'm a roll up my sleeves kind of guy. So instantly I left my freshman year of school at university. I got a job at a Holiday Inn when I was 19, and I enrolled in the local community college, which happened to have a hospitality school.'cause I said, well, I'm not gonna pay for my college education if I don't know that. I really do like the field and practice, so I better work while I'm learning the theory. Um, and that's the kind of way I approached it. I was a part-time reservations manager at this Holiday Inn. Um, and instantly I was blessed by what I would continue to experience, thankfully, which is great leadership, right? I never had a moment in my career where, uh, I, I didn't like my manager. I didn't have a good leader, which I'm extremely fortunate for, uh, because that is not necessarily common to everybody's experience. So from that Holiday Inn moment onward. To my time in hotels, I started doing hotel openings because I'm a very patient guy and maybe a glutton for punishment. Uh, but owners started to notice that I would hang in there for that. So I did new hotel openings, which allowed you to really come into a building that lacked structure, that lacked process, and start to build something. Um, and that's what kind of led me to also want to take the opportunity with booking.com. To build. So it was a common theme that I was fine with chaos. I was fine with nothing existing and I'd be happy to take the bumps and bruises that came along with building things. Um, so that, that's kind of the background of my career and how I ended up with booking. Uh, um, but I would suppose more people wanna hear about the booking.com part too.

Dorothy Dowling:

I think they do. Well you share that with us too.

Louis Zameryka:

Yeah, of course, of course. It's, uh, it's been a great experience. So, you know, I started at 26 years old. Basically about nine months or so after priceline.com had purchased what was then active hotels in the uk and bookings nl and created booking.com. Um, they wanted to then expand outside of kind of the nine or 10 core European countries that they were in, and of course to the, the US and the Americas overall. Um, so they hired myself. They brought over a great woman that led me, McKayla. Uh, she was. Instrumental, right? She came over, hired myself, this guy Bram, a Dutch guy that they found in Orlando, somehow being a Dutch company that found this Dutch guy. Um, and we had a borrowed intern from Priceline and another person that joined from Priceline. So it was about four and a half of us that were meant to create booking.com, uh, usa uh, and, and booking.com Americas. And, you know, Bram and I were account managers. And the unique thing about booking.com, and maybe it's not so unique to companies, but it felt very unique to me, was. You know, we had about 80 people in the company at that point, and we had our headquarters in Amsterdam, very small, two floors in a building. Um, and nobody ever left Amsterdam from any other department. Right. Only the hotels department went into a market. So when you built that market, you didn't just build the commercial, uh, part of that market. You had to start building all of the infrastructure roles you would need, right? All the support roles. What kind of org it would look like. What jobs were there to be done and how would you formulate the, the job descriptions and roles to do them? So this was, you know, kind of sign up hotels, but also build this entire company while you were doing it. Um, and it was quite unique, right? We were able to do so much. I, I almost can't even believe what we were allowed to create. Um, and so I did that. I started at 26. I was stationed here in New York. Took care of all the big markets in the Northeast, of course key markets for international travel, especially European inbound to the us. Um, and then more and more I was getting involved in the hotel industry itself, right?'cause I love the hotel industry. Um, and as I was in the Northeast, of course, I started to get a lot of familiarity with large hotel chains that were mostly present in the Northeast, in DC or we had Starwood up in, uh, white Plains. Um, and eventually our then director, eventual c e o, Gillian Tans came to me at a, an event and said, Hey, Lou, you handle the hotel chains? And I said, okay. Like, what do you mean? She's like, I don't know. We have to do business with them, so figure it out and you do the hotel chain thing and let me know how it goes. I said, okay, no problem. So, so I was responsible for a lot of the markets, uh, throughout the US and then for the hotel chains, and, and then it just kept snowballing from there. Uh, but, but the most consistent thing about my experience at booking is, I've, I always had to lead, right? So find the right people, get them on the bus and lead them. And I always had very direct commercial responsibility and it's something that I really loved, right? I didn't wanna necessarily be a manager of a large organization. I wanted to have impact and I wanted to work with kind of who would be the best of the best and put ourselves in really challenging, uh, situations where there were big opportunities. Uh, and that was kind of the, the theme of my career. But I've worked through a number of different departments. Um, and basically whenever anything was commercial and seemed large, uh, I would get a, a crack at it. And, uh, it was very fun and I'm very thankful to everybody at Booking for letting me, uh, hang out in places, uh, and meetings where they probably were like, well, why did we bring glue to this? Oh yeah, he's the, the America guy, uh, and the chains guy, and he has all those big partners. So I get it.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, thank you for sharing that, Lou and I, I know that so many of the leaders in the industry in North America, I mean you were thought of with such high regard, but also of such fondness because just of the relationship equity and the value creation that you've brought to everyone. So you've had amazing career and uh, I just wanna congratulate you for all of the remarkable successes that you have had. I'm wondering if I could, um, expand a little bit because it's always interesting when you're dealing with a European company and you had to be the voice of the Americas and particularly the US and you had to be able to bring that voice, uh, forward. And I know you would've navigated that extraordinarily well. But I'm wondering if you have any advice to audiences because dealing sometimes with different cultures across different organizations is. Something that, um, we all need to navigate through our careers. So, and you had to do it in a pretty extraordinary way, given that Amsterdam was the mothership.

Louis Zameryka:

Yeah. Oh, oh, certainly. So, you know, joining a a what would become a global company meant really understanding different cultures, how they do business, how they relate, uh, how they communicate. One of the most clear things as well, especially as you mentioned, you know, with the, with the Dutch, uh, headquarters, there was a lot of that. I think, you know, if, if you take a step back from even the idea of the global nature of how to work the different markets and cultures, um, there's a lot of principles, right, that I learned early on and I can share a story about. Uh, how I learned, you know, the, the power of the words you choose to use, uh, and how you also listen to understand how people think about the common language we share. Right? So when it was probably about a year or two in, at booking, um, we were working with the large markets and of course the, the hotels are, maybe I should go back to this actually. Uh, one of the fundamental differences that my colleagues in Europe had to learn, and there's a great story about myself and this guy, max Commander, who he, max Commander I was sent to, to Amsterdam on my first business trip, and I was meant to, Do training with Max Commander. Now Max Commander is quite a name. Right? Uh, I actually thought it was like a computer program we had. I didn't realize it was gonna be a person until maybe right before when he sent me the welcome email and it was definitely a personal email. Right. But I'm like, oh, max Commander training. Okay. What is that? So I sit with Max and he really built up the Netherlands, right? Like our first market. He was a hotel guy like myself, came into booking a few years prior to that. And when we sat down to understand the markets, um, he was telling me about Amsterdam, and I'm looking at his market data and there was, let's say 650 hotels and 14,000 hotel rooms, hotel. I was like, wow. Six 50 hotels in one market. And he's like, yeah. He's like, I mean, there's gotta be that many in New York too, right? I was like, No. And back then, this was before a big development boom in New York and I said, there's like 200, 250 hotels. He's like, there's that few hotels, but it's such a big market. And so I pulled up Cranes, if you remember Cranes, the business publication. They always had these lists and I showed him, I said, yeah, but Max, here's where it's gonna differ. Look at the top 10 hotels in New York City. They equal 14,000 rooms, like the 600 in Amsterdam. And he is looking at me and he goes, oh wow. We're gonna really re need to rethink things. He's like, one hotel will have a thousand rooms. Okay, yeah. We have to think about how they're gonna work with our extranet and everything. So it started even from that simple realization that while these were big markets globally, Amsterdam, New York, while they had a lot of hotels and hotel rooms, they were completely different in the dynamics, which meant the customers gonna be thinking about it differently from a partner side and from a consumer side and meeting our tooling and our approach has to change. Right? So that was like one of the first moments we realized this. Uh, but then I go back to the words, right? So one of the key features with having such a large hotel is that you had what started to become really professionalized revenue management. And these revenue managers, you know, were still back then used to working in extra nets and manually entering rates, but they had some connectivity, some automation, but they were building pretty complicated rate structures and when you changed the best available rate, They were used to in other systems, other rates that may be a 10% off rate, 20% off rate changing, but that's not how it worked. With booking, you'd have to change each individual rate. Um, and I wanted to make sure we automated that because it would cause us to have bad pricing and bad everything. And I called it dynamic pricing. And I did a business case, a check with my peers in other big markets. They agreed this would be useful there. Uh, I looked at, you know, the opportunity did perfect business case and I sent it over to our c e o and I got it back. It was like, no, we're not doing this. We'd never do this. And I was like, oh, that's a weird response. Like, never do this. It's, I mean, it seems pretty sensible. So I add, I, I work with someone at Easy Yield. They were very nice to help me build this thing out with some hotels that were willing to work with me. And we actually test it. And we test it, and the data shows it really worked, right. Easy Yield did a workaround for us. My friends that were revenue managers at hotels we're happy to set it up. So I refreshed the business case, sent it back over. I'm like, you know, this is, this is it. The answer is like, Lou, no, we are not doing this. And I'm like, what the heck? So I go to a meeting about a month later, I'm in Amsterdam and I'm listening to our c e O speak to a bunch of our commercial leaders. And he says, you know, in this dynamic pricing thing, we, we have so much runway in hotels that we are never going to, or no time soon, are we ever gonna consider packaging airlines with hotels? And I've been listening intently.'cause that's what you need to do to learn and grow. And I'm like, Did he just say dynamic pricing and he thinks I'm proposing that we package airlines with hotels. He's not even reading my case. And so I, I go back to my hotel room that night I changed the name to rate relations. I explained it as one related rate to the other, and I send it to him and he emails me back and goes, we need to talk. You don't leave tomorrow, right? I said, no. He's like, we need to talk about this. We gotta get this going. What resources do you need for this? This is amazing. And all the power of words, right? I mean, everything was there in the case, but I was young. I didn't know what he was thinking or what was on his mind. And instead of kind of leading with questions to learn more, I was leading with solutions to a problem I thought I was the expert in. And those two words on the cover sheet were what caused me to, you know, be delayed for months and getting the resources and scratching my head wondering. So I think, you know, there's, there's a lot to be said about obviously the cultural differences, but it really starts with really understanding the people that are around you, no matter the culture, asking the right questions. Learning everything and then being able to repeat back, uh, in the right words, right with the right language in the right framework so that people are accepting, uh, to the information that you may share, uh, because they do wanna rely on your expertise, but you need to kind of get them there.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, and I think that's really brilliant wisdom that you've shared with the audience, Lewin, in such a compelling story format because I do think that words matter and it is understanding the cultural. Uh, nuances of, of how words, uh, are translated in, in different languages, but also just that aspect that you talked about in terms of market size and understanding some of the details of addressable markets and what they look like in different, um, Uh, geographies, uh, is extraordinarily helpful.'cause,'cause I said the same thing to folks. As you know, there's as many rooms in Bangkok as there is in Las Vegas, but it is very much like Amsterdam. They're spread over many, many more hotels Yeah. Than they are in Las Vegas. But it is, it's just understanding how the market differs and making sure that everyone is on the same page with regards to

Louis Zameryka:

that. It taught me a lot. Oh yeah. It taught me a lot about detail mattering, right? Mm-hmm. So, uh, because we were a data heavy business, you could go very right following the data, or very wrong, right? I think we all know that and we've all experienced it. So you really have to think about, you know, what is it you're trying to achieve? What is it you're seeing? And based on what you see, is there any more information you need before you can act, right? Um, because to your point, you would've seen in, in a case about those two markets, you know, 10,000 hotel rooms, 10,000 hotel rooms, And if you attempted the same thing in both markets, you would've gotten drastically different results. Right. One, one way would've been maybe, hopefully appropriate for one of those markets could have been wildly inappropriate for both. Yeah. Uh, but, and the other way definitely would've been inappropriate for the other markets. So, yeah. Uh, it, it really matters, you know, and that's, that's probably the thing that I, uh, am pretty relied upon is like my curiosity, right? So I really lead with that curiosity to understand what we're trying to achieve. And if we. Or have thought about everything, uh, kind of in a very, uh, what I, what I think of as thinking in 360, right? So like, did we look at the opportunity or the problem as a sphere and did we look at down at every angle real quick? You know, we don't have to de deliberate forever on'em, but we have to acknowledge that we're not looking at a flat circle, like we're looking at a sphere, and we need to look at that corner, that corner, that corner, and just make sure that we're sure what we do before we go set out on our goals.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, again, thank you Lou.'cause I do think that power of, of how you were able to listen and, and learn through working through the other people in Europe, uh, is an important lesson for all of us because, um, I. It is about understanding all the depths of, of how people see the world and making sure we are speaking in their, their language to make sure we can move the ball forward. So, so thank you. I, I'm wondering if we can talk, uh, a little bit about you personally, Lou, because I think one of the reasons why you're held in such high regard in this industry in North America. You've taken such an outsized role in industry relations. I've always been impressed about how you give your time, how you're present at so many events, and I know that, um, you have done that very strategically in terms of the business that you're, you were, uh, leading, but also for your own personal growth. So I'm just wondering if you can share how some of this volunteer work that you have committed to over your career has helped shape your career.

Louis Zameryka:

Sure. So it definitely starts with the concept of relationships. Uh, it's underpinned by my love of service to my fellow, uh, man or human right woman, anybody. Uh, and that I, that was a very core tenant of the, the high school I went to. Uh, we were meant to be men that go out and serve other people. Um, so that was foundational, but I mean, it did start with the relationships and even, even the way I decided to grow booking.com from a partner perspective started with the relationships. Um, and, and he, I'll tell you a story about a guy and he knows the story. He found out about it years later. I told him about it, but maybe it's my strange way of thinking. So I was. Thinking about our business, right? And we look at room nights, transactions, market share, but this was very early on, first several months, right? It was about adding hotels and showing our value. And there were seven OTAs in the US back then, right? Online travel agencies and many international coming in. I. More than there are today. Right. And then of course you had your standard kind of bed banks and wholesalers and everything. So a lot of competition. And in big markets there was a lot of competition present right there in New York. And I was sitting in a small hotel lobby waiting for my turn to come in with my then bookings NL folders.'cause we, we were such a frugal Dutch company that you didn't even get the real booking.com folders with the real logo until we finished using all the bookings NL stuff. So that's what I would go in with. And as sitting there with my briefcase 26 years old, I'm waiting. And the door behind the front desk opens, you know, from the back office. And two people come out and they give each other this huge hug. And I watch this guy with his briefcase on, give a giant hug to the other person. And when he turns, I see he has this orbits, uh, logo on there and he has this big like German accent and he is full of life. I'm like, man, if, if we're gonna win, I need to get hugs. Like I need our, like partners need to hug us'cause we can't deliver too many room nights. We have a nice value proposition, but we're small. Right. The growth numbers make no sense.'cause if I looked at the growth numbers, they'll be like, yeah, we grew 14000% year over year, but you know, from very small bases. So I need people to hug me. Like they gotta want to do business with us. So I started measuring things in hugs and thinking about the relationships, and I said, you know, I have to get plenty of hugs, like this guy does. He's my role model If I can out hug him. And I, I, you know, the guy's name is Marcus Boker. You had a long career at Orbits and in the industry. He's back in Germany now. Um, I eventually became really close friends with him and got hugs from him. So it was a big moment for me, but that also led into my wanting to be truly part of the industry, like your question asked, right? It wasn't about, Hey, could I. Um, fake people into wanting to hug me'cause we do good business. It was, can I be part of their world? Right? Can I really contribute to this industry that I love and they love and thus really earn those embraces. Um, and I started with, uh, as, as you know from how we met with H S M A I, right? The Hospitality Sales and Marketing Association International. The New York chapter was its biggest chapter and since we had no offices, I used to be in the city for meetings or maybe coming in for the, the luncheon and, you know, weird times, I'd show up maybe 20 minutes, 30 minutes before the, you know, the start time and I'd be just sitting there maybe on my computer doing something. And Kathy Stapleton, if people don't know Kathy, Kathy is h ss m i and m p i, New York and has been H S M E I forever. Right? I mean, she is a true leader in our industry and we couldn't do anything without the volunteer work and the work she's done. Um, so Kathy would come in with all the name tags and they would need the clips clip to them and all the stuff they need to be alphabetized. And I would just say, Hey, do you need some help? So I would organize all the name tags, which is great for me'cause I get to know who's gonna be there. I'd get to know who works at what property or this and that. But it was ultimately, I was just helping. So I went from kind of the name tag adjuster guy to, Hey Lou, would you mind like walking around selling some raffle tickets? Said, oh, now that'll move me around the room more. Sure I'll do that. Sell some raffle tickets, join a committee. Join the board, become their youngest president, go from the president to the H ss m i Americas board, uh, and just try and be useful. Right. And that's mainly what I attempt to do in anything, right? So it, it's great to be of service to people and I find great benefit in terms of learning. You know, how I learn new things. I meet new people. I challenge myself in ways outside of my normal role. Um, but ultimately it, it's great to be with. People that also share that spirit of service. Um, so I try to max out on that as much as I can, and I've done a lot of that through H S M AI or through speaking at different universities, um, and in my local community as well.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, um, there's two things that I would say back to you. One is I love the story about payments and hugs. Um, and I always wanted to hug you because you brought so much value and emotional intelligence to every conversation. I love this story that you have shared with me because it truly, I, I thought extraordinarily highly of you before this interview, Lou, but now I fully understand why I have you in such high regard. It is your amazing emotional intelligence and this acute focus on commercial success and intertwining the two to make sure that you bring the value to everyone that you touch. So, Thank you for sharing those stories with us

Louis Zameryka:

and for people that are developing in their career. You know, it, it can be challenging to think about the idea that you're building relationships and you have commercial goals, right? But there's nothing to be kind of ashamed with in doing those both with the right intentions, right. You have a job to be done and you chose to do that job'cause you believe it unlocks value for, you know, your business, your partner's business and, and the customers, right? Maybe sometimes that is the partner at the same time, right? But you believe that you are serving value there and to serve other people is also valuable. And to develop meaningful relationships is also valuable. Doing that both of those things authentically is perfect, right? Never, never feel ashamed of it, never feel anything. And you know what? You may make missteps. Also okay, because your intention is good. Um, and I think it can't be said enough how young people can do both of those things and feel good about it, build the relationships, as well as build their commercial acumen at the same time. Um, and it also helps to develop leadership, right? When I talk to, uh, folks that I've been hiring at Booking or that are looking to get promoted, you know, as you become a larger and larger company, it's hard to move up the ranks, right? You gotta wait for someone to leave. When I was, when we were growing the company, you didn't have to wait for anybody to leave. There were just jobs to be done, and more and more jobs to be done, and no one was, was doing them. Um, but as you develop, you know, you look for that and you say, well, how am I gonna become a manager? I've not managed people, I've not led people. Where am I gonna get that experience? And I oftentimes point people to volunteer leadership, right? Because volunteer leadership, number one, it could be, I think, as you know, too, and, and many people watching, it could be harder than real leadership, right?'cause you, you generally don't have much authority to lead, right? So there's a lot of influencing, a lot of, you know, you have to be very astute in how you do it. Um, but it gives you a great opportunity to show how you can informally lead. And also sometimes in environments where it's not your typical day-to-day, right? So if you wanna learn marketing, but you're a salesperson, go volunteer on a marketing committee of a, of a not-for-profit, they would be more than happy to have the extra hands. They're more than happy to have someone willing to learn and to grow with them. And eventually you also get the chance to lead. So I think, you know, not enough can be said about taking that role as a method of personal development from a leadership standpoint or from broadening your skillset standpoint.

Dorothy Dowling:

Uh, that was so well said, Lou and I totally concur with everything that you had. It, it, it does. Allow you to develop your network, but it al always gives you opportunities for that personal growth and learning and, and developing peer mentors that are always going to fuel your career as as you continue to grow as well. Yeah. Um, I'm wondering if we can shift a little bit because everyone in our industry and. Certainly the business that you have led has had a lot of challenges, um, a lot of adversity in terms of the business cycles, and I'm just wondering if you can share with us how you have navigated leading through all of those. Uh, more challenging times. Most recently, COVID of course, but we had many economic downturns before Covid.

Louis Zameryka:

Yeah. Uh, I mean, like you said, there, there is adversity and it is challenging. So, you know, during covid, like many companies, you know, we had to rework what our organization looked like. Um, and there was only a few of us that would be used to what that organization could accomplish. If we go almost like backwards in time for us, right, to a different staffing level and methodology. Um, and it was very eerie.'cause then at that point I was working from home and you know a little bit about me. I, I grew up in a small village. It's weird to say. Village. Village on Long Island. Uh, I married a girl from around the block and I live there now, right? So, not too far from where I started booking and building it. I was now having to take it apart, right? And it didn't feel good, right? Because it's, it's like, whoa, we just got here. What are we gonna do about it? What I call upon in all of those situations is another trait that I've, I've worked to strengthen over time, which is resilience, right? So, um, you know, to share really how that evolved. For me personally, I've always been a pretty disciplined person. I liked the idea that if I got all of my chores or work done, or I set my foundation really well, uh, I could go out and do kind of anything, right? You know, if a friend showed up and said, Hey, do you want to go here for the weekend? I had nothing hanging over my head going, ah, I should really do this. Or go, go and do it. And keep thinking, oh, that thing's waiting for me. So I've always been pretty disciplined. So disciplined that at age 19 I decided to make sure I was disciplined and I actually tattooed discipline on my leg. But as so, no one could ever say I don't have discipline. But as I got older, I started to learn that the hardness that comes with discipline actually could or should be evolved more into resiliency. Right. The beauty of resiliency is that it, it does combine strength, but it combines strength with mobility, right. With a range of motion so that when you are faced with hard things, you have the, uh, tool set and the mindset to let yourself bend with those, right. So you can snap back into position even stronger afterwards. Right. And that's kind of how I've approached every adversity. I am I, I, Always hold an optimistic mindset regardless. And then I couple that with, uh, the resiliency and know that my intentions are to help other people achieve their goals. And sometimes that's really hard to do, but I've honed my resiliency that I will take the hardest of it on and I will be ready and I will show them how to do it as well. Right. So, um, you know, I know that might might sound very woo woo of how it's done, but. You know, that's, that's how I look at it in terms of, uh, you know, your personal development and, and the traits you look to, to work through.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, um, thank you for that, Lou. And I totally agree that resiliency is what I think our industry actually hones in a lot of people because the ups are good, but the downs are pretty deep. And so many of us have had to do exactly what you said. It's about sometimes going back to the basics and really, um, Stepping up in different ways and, and sometimes doing a lot of the heavy lifting personally. So I think all of those lessons around resiliency are things that. Individuals that choose to work in the travel industry have a great opportunity to really build their skillset. So, so thank you for sharing

Louis Zameryka:

that. It's an industry filled of passionate people, right? So resiliency. Resiliency is really important because your passion could also make you stubborn or Russian or things like that, or hold a line that doesn't need to be held as tightly. So finding the balance is really important.

Dorothy Dowling:

No question. And you being such a strong customer leader and really being so open to listening and learning from all of your stakeholders, I think, um, has, has powered your resiliency in, in pretty amazing ways. I'm, I'm wondering if we can move a little bit onto work-life harmony, uh, Lou.'cause as, as we said earlier, you, you have always been the youngest person in the room. You bring incredible wisdom and, and, uh, strength when you're dealing with partners, but you also a young family. And you have had to find that balance and, and be a good partner to your wife and, and a good parent to your children. So I'm just wondering, because you having a global role, travel has been a big part of what you've had to do. So how did you find balance in terms of being sure that you were there for all the people that matter to you?

Louis Zameryka:

Yeah, so I, um, again, fortunate to have good leaders. I still vividly remember. So if, if, you know in the news currently, while we're recording this, uh, in the industry news, I should say booking.com, we just opened our big new, uh, campus in Amsterdam. So big power we built over by the Central Station. I. Um, prior to that, we built a headquarters. We keep thinking we have enough room and then we realize we need bigger buildings, but that's a side fact. But, um, we built a headquarters called the Bank, uh, right in, remember I play in great place and while it was still being constructed, we went to, I think it was probably the fifth floor. It was like fifth or sixth floor, the top floor. It wasn't completed. And our c e o sat some of us down. And was giving a talk. So we're in folding chairs in a construction zone, but beautiful views of Amsterdam.'cause a pretty tall building for Amsterdam. And he started to explain, you know, the idea of, um, work-life balance versus a work-life blend. Right? And he was really clear in trying to give us some imagery and some of it were classic analogies, right? The. Rocks and sand in a jar analogy, the juggling balls and the glass ball analogy, right? Um, but it was also just the idea that, you know, when you're trying to balance, inherently something comes outta balance to make something else a priority. Uh, and he was, he was trying to walk us through the idea of trying to find ways to more naturally blend than always balancing. Because when you look back at the balance, you were gonna always see something out of balance. Um, what I took from that, it was. Over time to think through, well, to get the blend right or be okay with the balance. You see, you really have to understand your values and your goals, and if you could do enough work with on yourself, maybe with mentors and coaches to understand what it is you value, kind of get to why you value it, and then get really clear on what your goals are. You can get very comfortable with the decisions you make, right? And what you see ahead of you, whether that's travel, whether that's where you need to be or not be. Um, and, and you can articulate it better to stakeholders that are involved in either decision of you to be present or not present. Uh, you can feel a lot better about it. And it's not a, unfortunately, it's not like a one-off activity. You know, you do need to regularly re revisit that and refine it and have, I would advocate for everybody to have kind of a, a tool or routine to allow themselves to, you know, look ahead at what they are doing and spending their time on. Look within at their values and their goals and just find that harmony again, recalibrate it from time to time. So, I mean, that's, that's how I do it. Um, and again, you know, sometimes it's more challenging than other times. But again, if you know your values and your goals, you can find comfort. Whether you realize that you're making a, some, a decision inconsistent with your goals and values.'cause you have to. Or if you're consistent with your goals and values, but at least you're aware and can really consciously, uh, make that decision. Well,

Dorothy Dowling:

and I think that's beautifully said, and it is that intentionality of really trying to find that truth for yourself and, and hopefully having a supportive partner in life that, um, you can find that truth together because I do think it is, um, everyone sharing in some of that commitment and the goal setting, et cetera. So, but thank you for being so. So vulnerable in sharing that with us. Um, Lou, we're coming up near the end of the interview, but I do wanna ask you a very personal question because you have made a very momentous decision to leave booking.com. As I said, many of us in the industry have spoken about, we don't really know what booking.com will be like without you because you have been so instrumental in shaping not only the booking.com brand, but the partnership engagement. With so many, um, important leaders in our industry. So I'm wondering if you can share a little bit more with the audience about this decision, what your future plans are. Sure. And anything else you'd like to share.

Louis Zameryka:

Yeah, so it's definitely a tough decision to make, right? Uh, so let, let there be no confusion. Uh, I love booking.com. Uh, our mission and our vision resonates with me that we have for booking.com and booking holdings. So, Like very tough decision to make. But if you got anything from this interview, it's that, you know, I am very, um, I take a lot of thought and get, and very intentional about, uh, what I am doing, what my goals are, and when it's appropriate to, you know, to exercise a different decision, exercise, a different set of activities and things of that nature. So, um, I always knew that I'd want to leave booking when we were in great shape and it's something I've been thinking about for a while. So it came as no real surprise to my managers or our C e O or c o o and you know, they were great to even ask and say, Hey, if, if you're interested in getting back to like building,'cause that was one of the things I was very interested. I wanna go back to building things. I've gotten the opportunity to build commercial strategies, teams, all types of stuff at booking over my years. Um, and they said, find something you wanna do here. Um, and so I did. I looked around right, and I found some stuff actually. Uh, and I was really excited about it. But then I said to myself, well, the other reason I've been thinking about leaving is because I wanted to also build something of my own, right. Um, and right now I'm 43 years old. In eight years, my kids will both most likely be out of, uh, the house and in college. Uh, I don't wanna be quitting a job eight years from now at 51 and then starting my thing. I wanna have, whatever it is that I'm putting a hundred percent of my energy in now, uh, be working like the flywheel it can be by then. Right. So I knew I had to start now, so I didn't have to start later. And so I, I looked at the opportunities that I had in front of me at booking. I said, no, I'm so close. I just, I'm gonna go and do it. It's uncomfortable, right? Um, I'm very comfortable in the fact that I left a great team behind, you know, brought in great successors. Many of the people that I have hired are taking over these roles, right?'cause I love people development and love finding strong teammates and, and working together with them. So we're in a great place. Like I said, uh, you know, I think said it off camera to you, but you know, yesterday was Earnings Day. Booking holdings did really well. So I feel great. Makes it hard to leave such a winning team. Uh, but it's the right time for them. It's the right time for me. Um, And although it's a big step, you know, I'm going to do it. So right now a lot of folks that know that I'm leaving have reached out and offered jobs and everything, and I've respectively told everybody I'm not gonna jump into another long-term relationship. It's been 17 years of booking. Like I don't need to take a month and then jump into something long. But there are a few that I'm really interested in. So I'll probably do some consulting and advisory work for those while I also build my next business. Um, on a recent LinkedIn post, I said that, you know, most of the stuff I'll be focused on. Is, uh, health, wellness, and fitness and where that hits travel would be great. So I'd be happy to help businesses in that. Um, and there might be other compelling cases that would get me more looking at travel, especially when it gets back to kind of the physical hotel. Um, I'm very interested in that. I was a hotel guy as the start at the start, so, uh, that's the kind of stuff I'll be doing. You know, over the years I got a, uh, very deep into coaching, into fitness. You know, I'm a competitive runner, so. I have a coach for running, I have a coach for, uh, business. I have a coach for self-development, uh, all that kind of stuff. Um, and so I'm gonna build something in that space as well. So it should be fun. Uh, who knows if it'll work out, but I'm perfectly comfortable with taking the chance, right? Um, that's kind of my thing is like, well, I'm just gonna work really hard. I'm gonna listen to people, take advice, ask questions, and keep going forward, and we'll see how it goes.

Dorothy Dowling:

Well, um, if I may close our interview with just expressing my gratitude to you for, uh, sharing so much and being so vulnerable with the audience in terms of the lessons learned through your career. Um, I'd also like to personally thank you for all the investments that you've made, uh, in our relationship over the years and what you've done for the industry. You've been. A very bright light to so many of us. So I will be one of those people that's cheering you on and looking for what's next.'cause you are a courageous leader and one that I continue to follow. And, uh, look for the bright lights that you're gonna bring to all of us. So thank you for your time today, and if I may also thank our audience and, uh, just remind everyone that if you've enjoyed this interview with Lou, I hope you'll visit us on our website, dei advisors.org, where you'll see other webcasts and podcasts from, from other industry leaders that will empower your knowledge and feel your spirit. So I hope to see you there. And Lou again, thank you so, so much for giving us so much of you today.

Louis Zameryka:

Oh, thank you Dorothy. And thanks to everybody watching that's helped me during the time of my development too, so I really appreciate it.

Dorothy Dowling:

Thank you, Lou.