It's Personal Stories, A Hospitality Podcast

Mary Beth Cutshall, Chief Growth Officer, Vision Hospitality Group, interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

• David Kong

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Mary Beth Cutshall shares her path from hotel real estate and operations to founding her own firm, Amara Capital, a real estate DE&I investment platform for women and minority investors to gain access into hospitality. Mary Beth also discusses the lessons she’s learned along the way, including, among others, the importance of taking risks, why women should set dreams and execute upon them, and why she’d tell her younger self to listen to and trust her own voice. And don’t miss hearing which is the one book Mary Beth suggests all women read today.

Rachel Humphrey:

I am Rachel Humphrey on behalf of D e I advisors, and one of the great parts about being involved with D E I advisors is I get to spend my days with tremendous hospitality industry leaders and trailblazers, and that is definitely the case today. So welcome Mary Beth

Mary Beth Cutshall:

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be.

Rachel Humphrey:

Absolutely. Let's get right down to it. We're gonna spend about 30 minutes today, just getting to know a little bit about you, your path, and what you've learned along the way that others can certainly benefit from as well. While ending up an incredibly, highly respected industry leader at this point, your path is a little bit different, a little bit non-traditional to some of the others that we've heard. So tell us, who is Marybeth Cutshall and how did you get to where you are?

Mary Beth Cutshall:

Oh, gosh. So who am I? That's a loaded question. There's a lot of facets. Facets to me. How I got started is a little bit more zigzag than the traditional path for someone that served as a chief development officer in in hospitality. Like many many. College students. In the hospitality world, I only really thought about operations for the most part. I had started hotel school with the intention of being a food and beverage, and I did that for a while. And then quickly realized I liked my weekends. And I like getting to bed at a reasonable time. So I, I pivoted into operations and spent a number of years doing that and then pivoted. And this is after college, of course, pivoted into sales and marketing and did that for a few years and property, regional and corporate level. And it wasn't really until. I had taken a step back from the industry being a new mother, that I had an opportunity to come into the industry in a development capacity. So where many people who have elevated to a chief development officer started in finance or maybe a. Or maybe even brokerage. Real estate brokerage. Hotel brokerage. That was not the case for me. It was a winding path a little bit longer, but in retrospect, I'm very glad I took the path I did. because I really, truly believe it helped me understand what it meant to be an effective, successful operator when underwriting deals. I've checked people in, I've moved market share. I've served coffee and meals. I've scoped out competitors and I really got to understand the nuts and bolts. Operating a property and making a hotel successful. And I believe that has helped me 10 full times in understanding if a property had potential or not, where the weak links might be, if it was well run or not, or where some of the creative thesis ideas may have merit from what wasn't being done. It was unique and different. I'm not sure I'd recommend it cuz it I do feel I, I was very fortunate in getting a chance to get into the transactional side. I don't think my path is a natural or an easy one. Being able to get a seat on the bus. But I was very fortunate and I do think

Rachel Humphrey:

it helped. One of the things that you said there that's interesting to me is I'm a big believer in sliding doors that one moment in time can really change depending on whether you make the subway or you don't. As the old movie showed what happens. But that each step of the way we learn something and we develop something that then maybe makes us suited for the next opportunity that we didn't know we were gonna need. And it certainly sounds like that's been true of your case, where each one of those pivots while intent. Really gave you a different skillset that made you maybe more suited or well suited for the latest one. But you touched on something really important in there. When you say it's not as easy or it might be slightly different, certainly then that involves taking tremendous risks along the way. I think there are many of us, myself included, who thinks that we are risk averse. But when I look back on some of the greatest. surprises in my life they've been, because I've taken the biggest risks. How do you evaluate taking risks or what process do you go through when faced with taking a risk and has that changed over the years? So I think

Mary Beth Cutshall:

what initially gets me going is more curiosity. I look at a new opportunity, whether it's a role or it's a deal. From a lens of curiosity something about it draws me in. And from that, I think I start collecting data. I start evaluating an opportunity. What about it is attractive to me. What about it We do. I think there is something that could be improved. What about. represents an opportunity for me to learn something. So that's initially how I get pulled in, and then I weigh it with the data. Is this opportunity truly the right fit? Why am I interested in it? Is it something where I truly think I can learn and develop and add value? Or is it gonna be a flash in the pan and an eagle lift? And within 30, 90 days I'm, it's not gonna feel right for me anymore. Along the way in, in taking opportunities and assessing them and learning more about analysis and the value of data, I think it has given me the opportunity to not only look at the creative. Side of it, which is the ideation, the vision, the possibilities, but also balance it with a skillset that I've developed over the past many years of analysis. And the love for data. As someone recently said to me, there's the critical thinking side, and then there's the analysis side, the data side. I always loved humanities and social studies. As a kid in school, those were my favorite classes. And so I naturally gravitated towards being in a rural where, I was curious about people and understanding them, so it wasn't just to get information out of them. The initial driver was, who are you? What makes you tick? Tell me more about that. I was fascinated. And then as I got into the transactional side, I really started to understand the value of data, how to go about finding the right data, looking at it, reading it how people manipulated. How to punch holes in it, and then brought those two skill sets together, which has helped me to assess risk. is it the right opportunity from the kind of the humanity side, critical thinking side? And is it substantiated by the data bringing those two things together? So I believe I lean on that. a lot. And like anything in life as we go about experiences and good things that work out and failures or mistakes or missteps, we learn from both. Absolutely. We learn from the things that excite us and we learn from the things that. Sometimes don't work out and oftentimes don't work out. And we assess that and we grow and our tool blocks gets bigger and bigger. We have more to pull from. There's a lot to be said about seasonality and wisdom and those experiences. So for me, All of my experiences have helped me in better evaluating risk and what fits for me and what doesn't fit for me and knowing myself. But I would say when the traditional perspective on risk, I think because I've always led from a place of curiosity and wanting to learn more I, it didn't paralyze me. It didn't stop me from oh my gosh, there's so much risk in here. I just can't go forward. the desire to learn and to grow always got me over the hump with that. But the balance of also making sure it wasn't a fool's errand as well.

Rachel Humphrey:

That's a great point. Do you think that you use that same strategy both in assessing risk from, what is Mary Beth gonna do with her next step in her career, or where she's gonna spend her time volunteering or other things that you also do? leading your teams or making business decisions on behalf

Mary Beth Cutshall:

of your. absolutely. It's something I use personally and professionally. There's also these saying to thy own self be true, which I really think means know yourself. So as we evolve and as we have these experiences, whether it's motherhood or relationship or managing a team and successes and failures, what works, what doesn't work, different personalities deals that are put together. What was executed well, what we can learn from. I think all of that contributes towards how we lead and definitely certainly. Who a I am as a leader. There have been successes and failures and some things that I approach intuitively very correctly if I didn't have the experience in some things where I perhaps didn't do as well as I would've liked and learn, learned from that and corrected that. I really do think that everything that we do both pro profess professionally and personally, has the opportunity to cross over and help. In many roles of our lives. I know it's helped me as a mother in how I talk to my adult children and it's helped me as a friend in my listening skills and in encouragement. But also some of those personal relationship skills have definitely helped me in my relationships in the industry. There's no doubt. And I think we, we have a toolbox and we pull them out for what? Role we are in our lives, even if it's a board role or what have you. I think that's the value we add. When I started in my professional journey, there seemed to be a bifurcation of roles. You're this. During the day and you're at this at night and you put it on a shelf for one part of the day and you put it on a shelf for another part of the day. I don't think we live like that anymore. It's certainly, I don't live like that and I haven't for a number of years. It's a bit of a mashup. It's a bit of a weaving and I think. it's our life. It's something to pull from in all roles that we play, and that's the value that we, our unique value that we bring to our professional responsibilities and career path.

Rachel Humphrey:

I love that. I actually think that sometimes the risks we take that are less successful are the most empowering. I am a true believer that I wake up every day and I wanna be the best person. I can be the best employee, the best employer, the best mom, wife, whatnot. But I'm gonna make mistakes along the way, and I hope that I learn from those today and tomorrow I wake up again and I wanna be the best I can be. Learning from wherever maybe wasn't as successful the day before. You touched on so many important things in taking the risks. I wanted to follow up on a couple recently I had a friend tell me that she believes that every woman should have a personal board of directors, much like a company. And you use this board of directors for different people serve different roles within your board, whether it. For relationship advice or career advice or to go for a walk with or to help you get through a challenge. How important are support systems in your ecosystem and how do you identify or draw in those around you to make them a part of your board of directors?

Mary Beth Cutshall:

I think it's critical. I think we need people, we're people that need people to quote Barbara Streisand, and I think the science backs that, people live longer that have relationships. And it doesn't always have to be a spouse. It could be very close relationships, basically community. I believe it's important both professionally and personally for me. I really value people in my lives who have the courage and the authenticity to speak their truth to me and hold me accountable because I recognize that there, though I may have strengths, I also have blind spots. And I think part of building a relationship, and I also do think to a point being a leader, is the ability to be vulnerable and to. With other people because I think through that vulnerability, we really show who we are and our uniqueness and we show where we're strong and maybe where we're not strong. And I also think through vulnerability. We show humility, and through that humility we are actually able to receive wisdom from other people as well as learn something. I think every person has something to teach. Sometimes we just don't want to accept that Sometimes it's difficult to accept that. So I have a lot of truthsayers in my life and I welcome that. I hope, you I welcome people that can do it sensitively. with some diplomacy, that always helps to go down a little bit better, but absolutely, I don't know where I would be without my dear girlfriends there's a handful of'em that know me inside and out, and I think I know them and are confidence. Women I really respect, but I also have that in my professional life as well. Men and women. I'm a big believer in H V D I, which is the Herman Brain Diagnostic Indicator. We did it a lot at H V M G where we would have an understanding about our natural thinking style, and it helped us understand where our strengths are and how we can contribute to a team. And it also helps put together well-balanced teams that have a whole brain approach to ideation. Working through a process decision making, so the best decision is made and so the process goes forward in that. I learned a lot about myself. I learned. Where I could add a lot of value to a team and where I had some holes, which everybody does for the most part to a degree, some more than others. Where I wanted to also balance myself out through my relationships, so for example, if I am up against something that's either a very se serious decision to be made, or I know. I might want some support in processing that experience or getting to a point to make a really wise sound decision. I will, I know who to go to for where I think I might be falling short or where someone could add some value from an experience perspective, I think. Having a support system both professionally and personally, and they can weave as well because sometimes you become so close to people that bec that are your mentors or your champions. That in your professional arena that they start to actually become very dear friends and sometimes the tables turn and you're supporting them. I hope it's a two-way street. To me, that is what championship and mentoring is about, is we don't approach people is what can you do? For me, it's a give and take of adding value in any relationship. But there've been so many times where I. I have gone to trusted people and worked through something and came out of it so much clearer and better. That being said, I will say a lesson that I've learned over the years, and it took me a while to learn this, is to trust my own voice, my own instinct, my own gut. And that happened the hard way that happened from hearing that whisper earlier in my adult life, and sometimes ignoring it only to. Have it play out as I thought it might be. So I think the council and the support is just that as any good c e O would say they surround themselves by the smartest people, the efforts in their discipline, but it is council, it is. a perspective that is to be taken and thought through, but it isn't to say that you just knee jerk and go with what that person says. We need to use our critical thinking, and we also need to understand our own needs and our own desires and hear our own voice and take all that eclectic collective wisdom and sometimes eclectic wisdom, comments and put it together. And in, take a l take a listen to our own voice. I think as women we add, abdicate our own voice too much. I think sometimes there's a tendency to hear others' voices louder than her own. Absolutely. So I just do want to give some advice to women out there. Absolutely develop those relationships, both personally and professionally to help you be a better you and make sound successful decisions as much as possible. And for everybody that's different, right? What could be for you, Rachel, could be very different for me, depending on our lives. That's why we really need to factor in our own voice and to listen to that and don't dismiss. And grow it like a muscle, because I think we can also be our own champion. So I know I just, I gave, I threw a lot.

Rachel Humphrey:

I threw a lot. I asked you so much. You talked about so much. I'm trying to remember because I wanted to, there were some points you made that I really wanted to follow up on, but I will say that I did not realize maybe until. The most recent part of my life, the most recent part of my career, or even in my retirement, how impactful those instincts are or maybe how fine-tuned mine are and how rarely I listened to them. And it isn't until recently that I've realized had I given myself. Greater liberty to, to go with that gut, even if it was counter to everything else than decisions that I've made. I might have avoided ones that did not work out well for me. Yes. But that's an interesting thing and certainly I think something that I am continuing to learn, because you're right, it is a muscle and I'm just learning it now to continue developing it. But two things that you mentioned in there. I really love. One is about as you continue to build your network and your relationships, the hospitality industry is really so dependent on the relationships that you make. And we each are going to. Network differently. It might mean one thing to you and one thing to me, and our skills might be very different or where I'm comfortable networking may not be how you are. How have you tailored your approach to building relationships or networking that is really well suited to your skillset or who where you are comfortable maybe stepping into that role of network?

Mary Beth Cutshall:

I think it's authenticity and curiosity about other people. I think that's the main driver. If you wanna turn on your networking skill be curious about this person that you're talking to. Take it off yourself and get to know them and connect with'em. And I don't think it's a, an inauthentic approach where you're, it is just about agenda. Because I people feel that, but if you're just naturally interested in getting to know who they are and what they're about and what's important to them, I think that is one of the most important skills in networking, is curiosity and identifying the other person's needs. And then they're not always transparent. It might be as simple as I need to get a deal done and I. In targeting select service properties that are located in the Northeast and we have 80 to 120 keys, whatever the story may be. Sure, that might be their strategic goal to get things in the pipeline, but there's more of a more than that. What is our personal. Professionally, how can you add value? Are they needing to, or do they have a gap in their team? Are they needing to get debt? What can you do to add value and help with a person? Just because it's, it feels good. It feels good. So I think for me, Networking is the curiosity again, and just fascinating. Who are you, how did you get where you are? What was most important to you in making that happen? When did you run into bumps? What did you learn along the way? Why do you like that brand? Why do you like that market? Doing it in a way that you're leaning in. And there's something to learn not in a, condescending judgmental or approach. And I know that networking is easier for some people than others. Some people are just more extroverted and I know that some environments. The ability to network more easily. So if you are one of those people that can go at to a hotel investment conference and go to the general reception and make the rounds and talk to everybody, then go for it. Say hot, walk in, say hello, there's a space at the cocktail table. Go in. Need, drop your plate. Great work it. If you're the sort of person where that's so intimidating. Don't start there. Start in the lobby where you see someone sitting alone and there's an extra seat and sit down and. And introduce yourself. Start small and I build on those blocks. Be authentically who you are as a networker because it's fundamental in our ability to be comfortable and to be able to connect with that person. And what works for me might not work for somebody else. I think find your own way of doing it that makes you feel comfortable in your skin and the ability to engage. With the other person and take the emphasis off yourself and put it on the other person. If being in a ballroom and talking to a group of six people in a circle doesn't allow you to be able to put the emphasis on the other person, then that's not your place to start. Start small and if you can do that and hold court in the ballroom, then go for that too. So it really just depends. I.

Rachel Humphrey:

No, I love that because I am someone who is not comfortable walking into a room of 500 people, I don't know, and walking, looking at a badge, seeing a name and starting conversation. But I've realized over the years that I do have a different skillset that allows me to network in a very different way. And so when I say I'm not a good networker, I'm thinking just of that one scenario, that room full of strangers when really networking can be whatever I want it to be or whatever. Is gonna benefit someone else. You also talked about in building your support systems champions and other things, but you talked about identifying areas where you are strong and then maybe some areas that you could use some development. And continuing to grow is a really important part of all of our efforts to elevate our careers. To go in what? The C-suite, if that's where you wanna be at gm, if that's where you wanna be, you have a very. Diverse body of work that you've done to both elevate yourself, but also to be involved in community organizations. So from the Atlanta Hospitality Alliance to a founding member of the Board of the Castell project, how have you identified different growth opportunities outside of your, let's, I'm not gonna say career, outside of your job your paycheck and where do you look to for guidance and resources when you wanna continue to grow?

Mary Beth Cutshall:

So those organizations that you mentioned, I became involved with because there was this initial spark with the founders of each, and they came to me very early on saying, I have this idea, that's your fire. Way to open my door is to say, I have this idea because I think, grow. Organizations is just really fun and really cool to, especially when you're on the ground floor of it. So both Atlanta Hospital Hospitality Alliance and the Castelle Project. I was fortunate to be on the ground floor, but I think it's also my personality to take smaller things and help them grow. I saw a. and I'm a big believer, if not me, then who's gonna do it? And I think if I was to, that would be a theme running through my career. That those are the sparks that kind of have pulled me in to organizations or roles or contributing. I like to give back. I'm in the service industry for a reason. I'm service-minded. It's just a natural part of who I am, and when I see an organization that really connects with my values and I think is a good use of my time as well, then I have a tendency to just jump in both feet and do what I can. And I did that with both organizations and it's been thrilling to. Them form and take off and then go to the next next chapter or generation of leaders, and then to be more in the support system because it, the baton gets passed. I, it just, to me, I think I keep bringing it up. It's curiosity and it's adding value and work in and interesting people are part of it. So it gets, gives me an opportunity to get to know these people and and make a. Give back a little bit. I think that's part of it too. There's a balance with everything. Life natural laws about balance, we get and we give and when it's off kilter things cannot work out so well. And I'm mindful of that and I take joy in contributing and giving back. And I definitely like thing, I like to make things grow and I see a strategy and I see a vision and I enjoy executing on that vision and seeing it come through fruition. So those are the things that have pulled me in and they continue to this day with new things bubbling up.

Rachel Humphrey:

Executing on our vision actually is a perfect segue because one of the things that I have heard you talk about that I think is a little bit different than other female leaders that I've had the privilege of both serving alongside and learning from is this idea that women should set dreams and execute upon them. Tell us a little bit more about why you think that's so important and how have you managed to both set and execute on dreams that you've had?

Mary Beth Cutshall:

set goals, set dreams, aspire to vision, cast. I think having a clear idea of where you want to go and what your life. is going want what you want your life to be, what you want your life experiences to be like is super important. There's the old analogy. If you're going from point A to point B and you've got a long journey ahead of you and you're driving and it's much more efficient to of have an idea where your destination is plan with the end in mind. And I think there's some truth to that, but I would add a new part to that. But you've gotta be somewhat flexible because you might think you're. Somewhere, and then you come across something else and your vision changes, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with it. Each step leads you, especially if you're listening to your intuition, your voice. So I think it's easy to get stuck. and complacent and freeze without something that you're working towards. And sometimes it's the thing we draw inspiration from. Let's face it, not every day's easy. Some, there's so much that we can't control, and I think that is a big understatement with what we've all been through the past couple years. We realize so much is out of our control that really does affect ourselves and our families and our loved ones, and everybody's doing the best that we can. So it's that vision and that dream that we pull from for times of challenge and ti difficult to keep us on the path, to keep us moving towards that direction. And I, if we just are going about everything moment to moment, we can get farther down in our, the path of our journey and realize that we didn't take the time, we didn't set. The the time that we needed to to achieve that vision and achieve that dream. So I think it's part of it's part of what helps us execute, accomplish what we want our life to look like, what we maybe want, how we want our companies to operate and to succeed with. And it, you really can. you really can't get anywhere without knowing where you're going. And it's worth contemplation. It's worth setting aside time. And I think some people don't really feel like that is productive to be in a space where they're thinking through who they are, what they wanna accomplish, what gives them. That organic space, that free creative time, I'm a big believer in it. We fill our calendars with back to back, and I actually, I think that does a disservice to success both for organizations and leaders because they are not allowing that ideation process to help come up with a.

Rachel Humphrey:

I love that. I think part of it is when you are on that hamster wheel, it's very hard to realize how important that reflection and contemplation is. I know that I feel, personally, I've been much more successful at it since I retired last year than I ever was. Yeah. While I was working and because there were so many balls in the air at all times, as you mentioned, it felt. I don't wanna say wasteful cause I don't know that I gave it that much thought. I just don't, I didn't make intentional time for it. And I set a lot of dreams, maybe not realizing that I was doing it, but I didn't take time to evaluate where I was along the path to it, or was I going to achieve it or did I need to pivot that dream or do something else. And I do think I couldn't agree more that setting aside time to really Amplify those efforts or see where I was or evaluate whether those dreams still made sense, would have been a really good use of time that I didn't think I had, I needed to prioritize that time differently. I know we are running short on time. I could sit and talk with you all day long. I do have a couple things I just wanna ask quickly. One my favorite question when I am speaking with others that I get asked a lot and I cannot help but ask you because I always love to hear other people's answers. Your advice to your younger self? as

Mary Beth Cutshall:

we have enough time

Rachel Humphrey:

as we've continued to, really evolve our careers our role as women, as moms, as wives, as executives what is the number one thing that you would tell your 20 year old self that might change things for you along the.

Mary Beth Cutshall:

Oh gosh. I it's really hard to pick one thing because I have learned so much and I'm continuing to learn, and I, and we may have this conversation in 10 years and I'm going to give you a laundry list of absolutely. Things I would've told myself now. But if I was to look back, I would probably say listen, start listening to your voice and trusting it and. don't take things so personally, cuz sometimes things felt very personal and a lot of what people do is about them. And they project it out to us. And I think being able to recognize that, I think that's part of emotional intelligence too. And as we grow that and that is something we can learn and develop. And I definitely think as anybody I've learned that, there. We don't have to have it all figured out and we never will. I don't, it's continuous and there's a lot of pressure that we put on ourselves, especially women to fit in, to achieve, to accomplish, to break glass ceilings and. It life's a journey. And I know that's so cliche, but I think for me it would be cultivate hearing your own voice in respecting that and recognize that you're gonna come across people and in interactions where things happen and p people do things and it's really about'em, and it's, yeah. You, you gotta bring those two together. Yeah. If I ask the top two, And

Rachel Humphrey:

then just lastly, the d e i advisors motto is empowering personal success. What is one last nugget you would leave the audience with? One, you are a wealth of advice as I have loved learning from you and hearing your guidance. I follow a tremendous amount of it and it makes me think a lot, which I really love. What's one last nugget you would throw out?

Mary Beth Cutshall:

I think I've been giving nuggets throughout the interview, so I think I'll give something really concrete that a book that I recently read and I'm in awe of it. It's am Abby Wambach. New roles of leadership would encourage. Every woman, whether you are a leader or not a leader, or you aspire to be a leader and you're not, or you're just a mom or a friend, I would encourage every woman to read this or listen to her her audio, because she basically takes eight standard rules that we come. W against constantly in her professional careers and she blows them up and she puts out some new rules to follow and I think it's brilliant. I think she is a very gifted leader, what she did with the US soccer team I just really think she's on to something and offers a lot of support. And the one thing that I will say that there's things that she says, but women need to start supporting women more. Absolutely. No more of this. There are not just two seats at the table. There can be more seats at the table and we need to be lifting each other up. with each other in our own conversations and really supporting each other and create our own tribe. And I think that's happening, but I think we can all do a little bit better and recognize that's going to be the thing that's gonna carry you. And that will be a game changer when we really do embrace supporting one another. Which is, what you are and David are doing with De I advisors. And I I thank you for inviting me and I wish you much success because I think it's very much needed, but ladies help somebody out and have other women's backs for sure. I think, I can't stress that enough. We need to be celebrating each other for.

Rachel Humphrey:

Absolutely. There is no better way to end. Mary Beth, thank you for all you've done in the hospitality industry to have one another's backs to lift us up to lead by example, to make sure that there are as many seats at the table as we can have. I personally continue to learn from you and look forward to doing so for a long time, and I know a lot of others have too. On behalf of d e I advisors, we really appreciate your sharing your experience and your guidance and your wisdom with us today.

Mary Beth Cutshall:

Thank you Rachel. I continue to learn from you and everybody else as well and thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to spend time with you today. I'm just thrilled with what you all are doing and I'll support you any way I can. So thank you for the opportunity. Thanks Maribeth. Bye-bye.