Monika Nerger, Former Chief Technology Officer, Mandarin Oriental, Interviewed by David Kong

Monika shares her career journey in a field traditionally dominated by men. She reveals her learnings from setbacks and her approach to challenges. We also have frank discussions as to why women and other underrepresented groups continue to face difficulties in landing executive leadership positions, and her advice on finding champions and on networking. She offers her perspectives on finding passion and her advice to her younger self.

Transcript

David Kong: 0:00

greetings. This is David Kong. I'm one of the principles of DEI advisors Today we are delighted to have Monica Nerger, the global CIO of Mandarin Orient on our show. Monica sits on several advisory boards of our industry and is an inductee to the International Hospitality Technology Hall of Fame. Welcome to the show,

Monika Nerger: 0:20

Monica. Thank you, David. It's so good to be here. And thank you for everyone who is listening and those of you who may watch this afterwards, I have to say, I think what you're doing with the team at dei advisors is so important. To where we are, and I wish that as a younger woman I had something like DEI advisors to go to help build a little bit of confidence and understand how to develop my career.

David Kong: 0:50

Thanks for saying that Monica. Monica, it's unusual to see a female in an executive leadership position and technology for major hotel company. Can you share your career journey with us

Monika Nerger: 1:06

I can try and keep it short. Like a lot of us who entered the industry at a specific time, it was a bit half in. I would say that my parents would tell you that I had Wonder List and this was the perfect opportunity to start a career and see the world. And I started in food and beverage. I did everything tableside service. I filet fish, not well to for our guests. I was an aspirational sommelier. I was a bartender. I had a chance then to work first in Toronto, and then I moved to Sarnia and then over to the uk. And when I came back to Canada, Pam Pacific Hotels had opened in Vancouver, just about to, and they gave me a chance to work on their marketing database. So now I thought, Uhhuh, I know everything there is to know about tech. I had an Apple Macintosh, and I used a Wang Word processor, so I must be an. But I obviously was not. And I was so disappointed because they hired an IT director and I thought what do I need to do? And one day I'm gonna tell you, I just knocked on his door and I said, You need me and I wanna work in it. And little bit of negotiation moved over from marketing to technology. And that was the first door that opened. Now my best friend and mentor for life, Patience of the saint. What's the difference between an A Drive and a C Drive for those of you who remember what that was? taught me so much. And through Pam Pacific, that was the first time I got to travel to Hong Kong and Singapore Jakarta, and I was so excited to see the Far East as we would've referred it to at the. And next thing that came along the path completely unexpectedly. I was on a ferry going to Vancouver Island and I saw a little ad for a position on a cruise line and more on a LARC than anything. I did a handwritten letter, mailed it in, never expected to hear. Few months later, I got a call from Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines. I couldn't believe it. And they sent me a ticket to fly to Miami and put me on a ship. And I started implementing some shipboard technologies. Got to see the world I traversed once round. I was on so many different itineraries and it was such an incredible experie. And in order to progress my career, I knew I needed even more education. That's where the MBA program came in. I went back to school. I thought, Okay, now what? And as you know yourself once you've done a little bit of higher education, you feel that you owe it to yourself to try something. Which is when you and I met at kpmg. So once I graduated, I left Royal Caribbean, came to join kpmg. I was very fortunate to do some work together and then continued on I did some consulting work for a boutique company up in Seattle and they did application modernization and that sent me all over the casino and gaming industry. Everywhere from Atlantic City, Las Vegas to Macau, and through people that I met in the industry, I made yet another connection, and that was with Mandarin Oriental. So that's the long story of many different journeys. It looks like one nice, neat travel plan, but it was certainly not

David Kong: 4:55

Yeah. A lot of people think, Oh, you're just lucky to go work as a global cio, they don't know that you've actually paid your dues along the way. You have such wonderful exposure and global perspective because of all the experiences you get up to that point. Congratulations on having made it to CIO and having been there for quite a while now.

Monika Nerger: 5:17

Quite some time. I began as vice president of technology for the Americas. I think there were. Big ambitions to grow the luxury brand in this region. And during that time, the then CEO asked me if I was willing to succeed him. I thought, Oh my gosh, I'll, I could never do this I could never stand in his shoes. He was well, known, still is Nick Price in our industry, and he was the one that gave me the chance, as well as the ceo of course. Who saw me, I'm sure is a dear cut in the headlights when I first started

David Kong: 5:55

Congratulations you've made it and you've done so well in your role. Congratulations to you. Thank you. Now let's talk about education. You alluded to the fact that you have an mba, actually you have a undergrad in computer science as well. How important is formal education?

Monika Nerger: 6:11

I really believe it depends on what you are pursuing or what you want to do, and I'll make a few comments here. First of all, I think that technology is quickly outpacing education. No doubt about it. Anything that I would've learned during my days in computer science is probably not very applicable today, but it gave a foundation and. I always encourage people to get the foundational education that they can, but here's where I have some really strong feelings about democratization of education, because I think that everybody should have a chance to get a good quality education. Which is not to be dismissive of any of the formality of the programs or the great schools that we have in the United States, but I think more people deserve chances to, and ability and affordability to have the same level. So getting back to technology and the importance of an education, there are many entry points in. You can get a certificate in cybersecurity, a couple of courses. We will gladly hire you and continue to develop you your career, which will be good paying and give you many opportunities. No, I don't think it is necessary, but I just think it's part of the story depending on what you might like to do in the future.

David Kong: 7:38

Yeah. I really like what you said. We had a couple guests on our show previously that talked about the importance of formal education, how that broadened their horizon, allowed them to set up networks and all that is really wonderful, but it's not. It's not for everyone and we're all born differently and there are different things that we can do to enrich ourselves. Doesn't necessarily need to be formal education, but I, So I really agree with you, everything that you just said, no doubt that you've had a very successful career, but there were challenges along the way. And I'm just curious as to what's your general approach to challenges?

Monika Nerger: 8:21

It's a good question. I think we all face challenges and they could be, losing a loved one. It could be something difficult, a new job that you've taken on. It could be an athletic pursuit. For me, it was running my first marathon. There are different challenges, and at the end of the day, I think you need to draw from your experience. So I'll give you an example. At Mandarin Orient, we had a cybersecurity attack in 2015, and it was probably one of the worst things that I have experienced. And you can say that you draw on what you know, but nothing is like a new challenge. But I think it's consistent in how you approach it, which is seek help go to your trusted friends, advisors. Don't think you have to do it alone. Ask for support and then communicate. Communicate. Cannot overemphasize how important that is to explain what's going on and where you are. And then during the pandemic, I coined a new term, I call it anxiety. And I know that sounds a bit like an oxymoron, but really what that is you're a leader of your team. Of course. Everyone's terrified, everyone's worried. You need to find the center, draw on some of those experiences. Make sure you keep that calm even while you're battling with your own in internal Trying to quell those very same. So I'm, I just, I could tell you many different stories. Another challenge. Was taking on the C CIO role, Did you see I almost said CEO, CIO role. That's next up Because my, the former CIO was so well respected and the team was then about 120 fives. If we had all the colleagues at the hotels in corporate, and they were all men we didn't have any women leaders. We had. Some administrative support, executive support, but my first thought is how am I going to lead and how will this team trust me and follow me? And through that I learned quite a bit as well around spending a lot of time with people face time. Listening, really listening to their concerns and the cultural nuances and differences. First time I went to Hong Kong, brought the whole team together. I walk in a room, everyone is silent, And no matter what I said, I couldn't get any feedback or reaction. Of course, very different in the western world.

David Kong: 11:07

Yeah. No doubt. And I can just envision myself in your shoes, being a woman, being the only woman in the whole organization that's made up of men that's a daunting challenge. Obviously there were some doubts about you.

Monika Nerger: 11:21

Oh, I am certain the things that I did not hear reflected all of those concerns. And also, reestablishing yourself as someone who is, a step below. Now you have peers at the executive level, and are you up to the task? I also must say I had no idea. What it was like to work for a CEO and how you have to change your approach and the kind of information that a CEO needs is very different than what you would normally share with your team.

David Kong: 11:51

Thanks for sharing your experiences and how you approach challenges. Sounds like it's having the calm center and because if you are calm as a leader, everyone around you feel much better about the situation and doing a lot of listening. I like that And asking for help. I like that too. Thanks for sharing that. Related to challenges setbacks and disappointments, obviously we've all experienced that, and would you mind to share some of the lessons that you've learned?

Monika Nerger: 12:21

I have a large pool to draw from. I think anyone that achieved some success in their lives has faced a number of setbacks and disappointments, and there were positions that I didn't get. and even recently there were, there was a board position I was very excited about. There were two of us and the other person ended up getting the position. And I think what I learned is it's always important when you have a disappointment or a setback, that you ask for feedback. But feedback that is action. And I'll give you an example of the difference. If you go to someone, you're disappointed you didn't get the job and they say you weren't a good fit, that's not feedback because it's not actionable because you don't know what it means. So you have to probe a bit further if they say you were not able to communicate or articulate effectively to the board the marketing strategy for China, which is their growth market. Now, that's very. Now you can go back. Now you can really take it and understand what do I need to do differently? And most importantly, then you go try again. And I think that's the, That's another takeaway of disappointment or failure or setback, is just encouragement for you to learn more. And I'm always humbled by the things that I thought. I knew and I had so much more to.

David Kong: 13:50

I like what you said. None of us is perfect and we all have opportunities to learn. And when you can learn from those setbacks and disappointments, it makes you better. And also I like the point that you're making, that it makes you a better leader because then you can help others overcome their setbacks and disappointment. I like that. Let's talk about the leadership qualities. I know you interview a lot of executive candidates, and what are some of the qualities that you try to assess?

Monika Nerger: 14:18

First of all, we're a people industry, and what I'm looking for is someone who really has that passion and understands. We, we serve a lot of different stakeholders, our customers, our colleagues, our owners, operators our community. And I think to be successful as a leader in the industry, you have to find joy in the service of others. So that's what I'm looking for. And I cannot overemphasize that joy, serving other others in all of these different arena. Also, for Mandarin Oriental, because we're in 23 different countries, I always think it's valuable to have another language or some experience having lived somewhere else. Most definitely I look for empathy. and I expect my leaders, even if they haven't necessarily worked in operations that they're able to relate to the industry. An example would be understanding how difficult some of these jobs are. Whether it's housekeeping, working in the kitchen, it engineering, you have to be empathetic to understand the role and the responsibility. We're here. We're here then of course to, help direct that set strategy, build beautiful hotels, but it's really the people that make the difference. And that's what I'm looking for.

David Kong: 15:45

That's really well said. And I Totally agree with you. You've gotta have empathy. You've gotta find joy in serving others. And you've gotta have a global perspective if you wanna work for a global company like Mandarin Oriental. That's really well said. Thank you. Now one of my favorite questions when I interview people is to ask about their leadership style. What's your leadership style?

Monika Nerger: 16:10

I hope that if any of my colleagues are watching this will resonate as group. Based on what I've just shared with you can probably tell that, I'm people first leader and I feel that I'm here to support them in their career development, not just within Mandarin Oriental, but also in their personal ambitions. and the way I like to lead is of course, work with my team, set the strategy, set direction, and then leave it to them to work through how to deliver that. Because I think that level of autonomy is what people seek as they develop their careers and it helps them grow and we get better. Those are probably the two pieces. The last I would say is really just leading with your values. And for me that's about compassion, trust, and respect, and,

David Kong: 17:03

That's really well said. And I think in most textbooks that would be the desired qualities that any leadership aspire to have. Having empathy for others, wanting to serve them and enable them to be successful and being empowering. That's really well said. Thank

Monika Nerger: 17:20

you. Textbook versus execution. So different.

David Kong: 17:24

Now, I know you and I think you are that kind of a leader. Thank. Now Mandarin Oriental is a global hotel company. They have hotels in 20 some countries. You do a lot of traveling abroad. How do you manage the work life balance?

Monika Nerger: 17:44

Good. Good question. Again. Probably one of the most important things you can ask me, because I hope this helps others in our conversation. I used to travel a lot more than I have in pandemic time. So it was some 200 days of the year, which wow, tremendous amount of travel. Managing work life balance is something we all talk about, but nobody really knows how to what's the secret? What's the right algorithm to, to achieve that? Right now I am working primarily West coast, us. With our Hong Kong team the UK team, Middle East. So I have what I will consider jet lag in place. I am taking calls at 3:00 AM at midnight, at five o'clock at night, 10:00 PM It's a very fluid time as we work hard to turn, the company around for this very difficult period. And we have colleagues, as you say, in 23 different countries. So what I do Little pieces. Call it the power of one. I'll do a one hour nap running one mile, I'll read one chapter. At least try to do these things for yourself. And everyone is perfectly capable of doing that. It's, it's hard to practice until you get some rhythm and say, All right, it's time to step away from digital for a moment and do that 15 minute. To me there's some non-negotiables, and I think part of work life balance is saying, These are my guardrails. These are things that I will not negotiate for me. Every day. I call my mom and dad 5:00 PM Eastern. If I'm in a meeting, I step out and that's a non-negotiable a date night with my husband, Nongo. So I, I just think you have to have those small things in your life easier said than done, that you can bring into what is a very stressful time, particularly in it where we see the demand on digital, as during the pandemic, immense higher risk in cyber security. Fewer resources. There's a lot to manage and it's important to take the time and take care of yourself first.

David Kong: 19:57

Yeah, I like that very much. You've gotta take the time to take care of yourself, otherwise you can't be effective at your role. And I also like keeping some things sacred, that those things are nonnegotiable because those things keep you sane,

Monika Nerger: 20:16

nonnegotiable,

David Kong: 20:17

like you, I like to keep some time to myself. I like to exercise to make sure I'm in a proper frame of mind. And I make time to exercise. I get up earlier, so I can exercise. So those things are non-negotiable. And family always comes first. Definitely. I always advocate that as well. Let's talk about, some 20 years ago when we worked together, I was happy to work with you at kpmg. I really enjoyed that time with you and fast forward to now, we've all come a long way, Looking back, what's the advice that you would give to your younger

Monika Nerger: 20:54

self? First of all, I will say how lucky was I to be assigned to your team and have the chance to work with you? And it was on the best Western opportunity as you remember. And I learned so much in a short period of time. I would say, advice to younger self and nobody really, does anybody really like that question because I would love a mulligan and, but advice to younger self. Just be braver, be bolder and be true to yourself and trust your instincts. And particularly when you're younger maybe you don't have as good a sense, but you always know you just. don't get really good at trusting the instincts until you've had a little bit of experience.

David Kong: 21:40

It's really well said, and I have interviewed a lot of people in my previous role. And the one thing that always struck me was how they thought about themselves, that they short change themselves. A lot of times people short change themselves in the way they think about their future. So I like what you just said about being bold and how you envision yourself in the future. Now let's talk about challenges that women and other underrepresented groups face in our industry. Our industry has come a long way, and I'm really gratified to see that a lot of major hotel companies like Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott, IHG, all have wonderful programs now to improve the hiring and development and promotion of diverse talent. That's really gratifying to see, but why do women and other underrepresented groups still face such challenges in moving ahead?

Monika Nerger: 22:36

I think that what you're doing with D e I advisors and some of the programs you just mentioned is a recognition of a big problem because we haven't been doing this very long and I call it the three P's, which is really pipeline. Priorities and possibilities. So the pipeline even, we're starting now to a large degree, we're doing a better job of hiring with less bias, casting a wider net helping others that when, I mentioned that whole democratization of education. To get somebody in the pipeline, they have to have a starting point that is reasonable and affordable and need to be encouraged as well. So I think start with the pipeline, the priorities. Wow. I could say a lot here, because I don't think that we have always walked that talk at all and. Every time you give a small piece of encouragement to someone, it could be at work, it could be in your community, it could be anyone that you meet. You are helping them think about their future in a bigger way than maybe they would've imagined and maybe that was your experience. It certainly was mine. I didn't have that sense of priority. I thought, this is what I am, this is probably what I can achieve. I didn't think that I had a big future career potential ahead of me. So prioritizing that as leaders and influencers in the industry is critical. And then the last gets back to the whole notion of possibility. So what is possible? What can we do? And it's not. To help build the pipeline. It's not enough to prioritize what you do. It's offering those chances to people who you might not have considered for a role or someone that comes from a different country and is starting out and you might be concerned, can the person do the job, Give them a chance. So I, I would say those things. Pipeline priorities possibilities.

David Kong: 24:45

I like the three Ps It's easier to remember and we should keep that in mind. Now let's talk about, advice on finding mentors, champions, and advocates, cuz we all know how important that is cuz on your own you can only do so much to advance your career. We've gotta have mentors that point out our blind side and we gotta have champions, advocates to help us move up the ladder. What's your advice on finding mentors, champions, and advocates?

Monika Nerger: 25:16

It starts with you. It starts with the individual. You have to raise your hand, I would suggest, doing a little more than what's asked. Being willing to explore and try something new, even though you might fail. And along that journey, you're gonna find people that wanna help you. And don't be, as I said earlier, don't be afraid to ask for it. It doesn't need necessarily to be a formal mentoring program. You develop these relationships and contacts by trying new things and those doors will open. And there's different ways to experience and learn things without having to spend a lot of money. I was listening to Tim Ferris's podcast and he interviewed a gentleman named Ralph Pots, who wrote the Baggo Bond Traveler and just well thin clicked. I thought that's pretty cool. And what Ralph suggested is go to a hostel in your community. Sit down and say, What are you doing here? Why did you come to my city? Where are you going next? What technology did you use to figure out how to travel? And you can find mentors, champions, and relationships everywhere. I know it's very easy to sit behind a. And sometimes as we are doing now, that is actually something I'm more comfortable with. But if you give yourself the chance to go out into the community and talk to people, even in a small way, you're gonna end up building a network that's both digital and analog and combined. That's the power of how you move forward. Maybe the last thing I'll say on that I draw from my husband who's a musician, and every night he is on stage, he's out there and he always says to me, You never know who's in the room. And it just might be that one observation that someone says, Uhhuh, I remember this person, or I remember this experience and I'd like to connect and do more.

David Kong: 27:20

That's powerful. I like it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on that. I see that we're running a little low on time, so I just ask you a couple more questions. So the next question is about finding inspiration and passion. I've known you for a while and I know you are a highly dedicated and passionate person. You give it all and anytime you take on a role. And is that passion innate in you? How do you find inspiration

Monika Nerger: 27:52

really quickly and something, I've noticed on your program part of it is innate for me for certain, and that comes from an immigrant background where my mother and father were children during World War II in Germany. My father's house was burned to the ground. My, my mother's father was killed. They came to Canada. They didn't know each other, and they began with nothing. And I know you can relate to this. No money didn't speak. The language needed to start their lives over, and that was so foundational to me in developing that passion and drive and desire to succeed. but I also do believe it can be cultivated. And that gets back to my musician husband. So if you find something that you love and you're really passionate he told me early on when I was earning no money, he said, Do what you love. The money will follow. So you have to go all in. You have to do the work. But I, I do believe it can be cultivated as. Yeah.

David Kong: 28:55

I like that. As immigrants, we know firsthand we've gotta try harder. It's up to us to make it and I also like what your husband said, you gotta give it all. Thank you. Now our show is about self empowerment. Is there a parting advice that you can share with us?

Monika Nerger: 29:12

Just, yeah, there, there was one thing, other than what I've talked about, being brave, being bold, true to yourself, staying humble, just a tidbit and takeaway for those who have time. My favorite author is David Foster Wallace, and if you have just a few minutes, find his commencement speech called This is Water, and this is. This is water. And it, I, to me it changed my life. It changed the way I think about things. It changed the way I think about people, and I would encourage you to listen to it even just once. That's my piece of advice.

David Kong: 29:52

Thank you. I'm gonna go look it up. This is water

Monika Nerger: 29:55

Oh, this is water. It's on YouTube. It's fantastic. You'll love it.

David Kong: 29:58

I can't wait to get my hands on that. Thank you Monica. Unfortunately, that's all the time that we have. I appreciate your being on the show. I've always admired you and I'm so just so impressed with what you have accomplished.

Monika Nerger: 30:12

Thank you so much. It's a real honor and a privilege, and thank you for giving me the chance to share some of this with the listening audience.

David Kong: 30:20

I'm sure the audience appreciates your comments, and thank you to the audience also for tuning in, and if you like this interview, please visit us on our website, deiadvisors.Org. We hope to see you there thanks again, Monica. Thank you. Thank

Monika Nerger: 30:37

you.